Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

mod.gov.il

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 629 posts

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#601

Post by sporkxrocket »

judah wrote: post #106
xg15 wrote: post #86

Someone should give people in Gaza or the West Bank or Lebanon the same tech.

Gaza (Hamas), the West Bank (Fatah), and Lebanon (Hezbollah) are the reason this technology is needed in the first place: violent religious fundamentalists firing cheap rockets at Jewish cities because of religious hatred. Over 16,000 rocket attacks on Israel last year alone. Thanks to the Iron Dome technology, nearly 90% of such attacks were intercepted, saving thousands of lives. This new Iron Beam technology is mo…

Zionism is an illegal, genocidal, racist ideology. It exists 100% on land stolen from the Palestinians. They have every right to resist the foreign occupation on their land.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#602

Post by solidsnack9000 »

jmward01 wrote: post #570
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is a clear argument that it isn't realistic to be done from a technology standpoint -- in other words, I don't think this laser meaningfully changes things from a capabilities standpoint. The necessary miniaturization and precision are available. Now, you may think I have the facts wrong, here -- that we haven't had the kind of precise turret before, or that we can't deliver small arms ammunition…

My argument is that bullets move slow, can miss causing obvious damage to surrounding infra that shows up on cameras, that they are loud and that minaturization is important to making this a real trend. You started with CWIS which is massive and has a lot of maintenance. I don't have information on the small precise turrets you mentioned. Please provide it. Either way my arguments still stand. What may have not been…

Is sounds like you're saying something that "...was technically possible but not practical..." is no longer impractical, or at least is "...now quickly becoming technically possible and practical...", because of these additional facts that should be considered:

(A) "...bullets move slow, can miss causing obvious damage to surrounding infra..." -- In other words, the precision I say is possible with small arms isn't realistic. This has two consequences:

(A1) The bullets can miss. Consider a bullet on its way to a target 500m way -- it may be in the air for more than half a second. Maybe the target was walking forward at 1m/s and just stops walking forward -- then the bullet will pass 50cm in front of them. This kind of miss is unacceptable can prevents technology like the kind you imagine from being deployed.

(A2) If the bullet misses, it will put a whole in a wall, &c, &c, whereas a laser either (A2A) will not miss or (A2B) won't cause a problem if it misses?

Regarding (A2A) and (A2B), are either or both of them something you had in mind?

(B) "...they are loud..." -- Firearms are loud but it's hard for me to say what you think the contrast or relevance is here. The lasers are silent or nearly so? Or the firearm's sound creates a problem for some other reason?

(C) "...minaturization is important to making this a real trend..." -- Firearms are not small enough. You said earlier that "...I think this is taking a miniaturization turn..." but how small do you think these lasers need to be, for the reality that you're concerned about to come into play?

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#603

Post by goku12 »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #395
goku12 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you implying? That the civilians of Germany too were involved in the Holocaust under Nazism? Sure, they hated the 'other' groups. But the Nazis had to suspend the earlier Aktion T4 after it attracted a severe revolt from the public. Learning from that experience, the Nazis took enormous efforts to keep the Holocaust out of public sight. If the German civilians had known well about it, would the allied armies…

The evil of attacking civilians is not determined by their stance on genocide. Even disarmed combatants who pose no threat cannot be licitly attacked. Civilians cannot be legitimate direct and intentional targets, period. > War is inherently immoral. That’s not true. War as such is undesirable, but fighting one is not categorically immoral. Just war principles determine when it is morally acceptable or even a duty to…

> That’s not true. War as such is undesirable, but fighting one is not categorically immoral.

Do you know one war where either side hasn't resorted to immoral activities? Everywhere from WWI allied power to modern day wars, the western nations have resorted to spine chilling crimes that nobody in the west wants to talk about. Just because the other side commits even bigger crimes doesn't mean that it absolves you of all sin. Even in the modern day wars like in Afghanistan, the allied forces have resorted to killing of unarmed civilians including children. I'm not even going to start with the other crimes.

The western nations have this delusion that they fight some sort of righteous war where they can do no wrong. But go to those countries and ask why they're so hostile towards the west. This is why whenever I talk about Nazism in its historical context, people in here become uncomfortable and downvote even recorded historical facts. They don't want to admit that they were not always the righteous side. I gave the examples of Hamburg and Dresden. And like I said, even Churchill was critical of it. If you say it was moral, then I see the same attitude on both sides of the war. Such activities may have been inevitable during the war. But denying its immorality now is just misguided moral chauvinism.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#604

Post by eli_gottlieb »

sporkxrocket wrote: post #599
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get to "resist" your neighbors existence because you want to claim their territory for yourself.

That territory is rightfully Palestinian, and always have been. You absolutely have a right to resist an occupying force on stolen land.

Both sentences are incorrect.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#606

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #473
snickerbockers wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their constant warmongering is why they constantly are being bombarded with rockets. That you're primarily concerned with disruption to life and financial burden rather than casualties and infrastructure indicates that iron dome is already capable of preventing these rockets from being a serious threat. The absolute asymmetry of every war they fight is proof enough that the only real solution is a commitment to negot…

Leftist fantasy. Diplomacy only works if both sides desire peace. The reality: Israel desires to avoid a continuation of the Holocaust. Iran desires stirring up trouble as a means of taking over countries, and uses the conflict with Israel as a justification. It's working fine for Iran, why would they agree to peace? They never have, just some stuff playing us for fools. I don't support The Felon but tearing up the I…

>Israel desires to avoid a continuation of the Holocaust.

Then why the UN-recognized genocide of Palestinians?

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#607

Post by kennywinker »

throw10920 wrote: post #591
kennywinker wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not walking back anything. I said something, you misunderstood, i clarified. I stand by the original wording, as i believe most people are be able to understand my meaning. At some point I have to assume willful misunderstanding on your part

OK, now you're just lying. In the parent thread you said: > To say that israel invests in defense is at least 1/4 untrue, since the US sends billions every year. You are clearly claiming that because Israel's defense budget isn't entirely their own spending, that that claim is not entirely true. Then someone else responded: > That the US contributes doesn’t take away from the billions Israel did and does invest If th…

I am saying the same thing in every post I have made about this, and you’re getting tripped up by something and i can’t figure out what. Anyway, nothing more to say here.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#608

Post by kennywinker »

tguvot wrote: post #590
kennywinker wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/4 by my reckoning. See links to my sources in the grandparent post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46452680

israeli defense budget is around $35b-$45b usa aid is typically around $3b-$3.5b . 2024 higher aid is one off due to the war. also (unless i am wrong), good chunk of aid that Israel got from usa during war was in form of loans/guarantees for loans and such

Their military budget is wayyy up due to the war, so if you’re ignoring recent giving you should also be ignoring recent spending.

In 2020 their military budget was ~21b. In 2020 the US gave 3.8b - so 21%, or 1/5. My number was based on 2024 budget and spending, which is why i said 1/4, but you’re probably right that pre-war numbers are more accurate if we’re talking about their long term spending trends.

Sources:

Israel military budget: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.CD?end=2020...

US money to israel, page 6: https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/RL/PDF/RL3322...

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#609

Post by kennywinker »

FunnyUsername wrote: post #564
kennywinker wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.who.int/news/item/22-08-2025-famine-confirmed-fo...

IPC had to ignore their own definition to declare a famine though. An actual famine involves at least 2 starvations per 10,000 people per day, among other requirements. According to Hamas' own data, Gaza was always several orders of magnitude short of that.

First, the IPC famine scale is a scale in phases, not a simple yes-no binary.

Second, yes there is a war going on - solid data is hard to come by. But that’s a lack of data, not a change in their criteria. You can read their full mortality analysis and reasoning starting on page 24 https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/I...

The conclusion is:

>Considering the available evidence, and in line with the IPC Guidance Note on Famine Classification,64 the FRC infers from the available data that mortality thresholds for Famine have already been exceeded in Gaza Governorate. Based on expert judgement, we also conclude that the Famine thresholds for mortality have not yet been crossed in Deir al-Balah or Khan Younis governorates.

No goalposts moved. Based on the data we have, people are dying of malnutrition.

Re: Iron Beam: Israel's first operational anti drone laser system

#610

Post by sporkxrocket »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #604
sporkxrocket wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That territory is rightfully Palestinian, and always have been. You absolutely have a right to resist an occupying force on stolen land.

Both sentences are incorrect.

History says otherwise.
Post reply on HN