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Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

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Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#601

Post by pseudalopex »

broof wrote: post #584
pavel_lishin wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used anti-miscegenation as a stand-in, as an example of a ludicrous, indefensible position to hold today, while there are still holdouts who apparently think that gay marriage is some sort of affront to the moral fabric of society.

Oh okay, I see. It is wild to see how much things change because amongst my generation your analogy makes sense, but at the time prop 8 was passed by a majority of Californians.

Eich was appointed Mozilla CEO in 2014. Not 2008. 2014 polls said 60% to 70% of Californians supported same sex marriage. Most California voters would not qualify for most jobs in any case. And Eich's 2008 discrimination support mattered less than his 2014 inability to say he wouldn't do it again.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#602

Post by treyd »

guywhocodes wrote: post #325
Silhouette wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think it was a mistake for Firefox to dump its old plugin model. The customisation was a USP for Firefox and many useful tweaks and minor features have never been replaced. Today the ability to run proper content blockers is still a selling point for Firefox but obviously wouldn't be if they started to meddle with that as well. (Has there ever been a more obvious case of anticompetitive behaviour than the big…

It made me stop using FF on android.

They readded support a while ago.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#603

Post by jmcqk6 »

sltkr wrote: post #526
pavel_lishin wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, if the CEO of some software I used suddenly came out as anti-miscegenation, and started donating money to the cause, I'd stop using the software until the CEO was fired too.

So you agree: for you, it's more important that the Mozilla CEO shares your political views, than that Mozilla makes a quality product. That's exactly what the parent post is talking about. When Mozilla started prioritizing political correctness over software quality, software quality predictably declined. That's why they are struggling now: they reduced their user base to the tiny group of political extremists that…

> the Mozilla CEO shares your political views

I think treating every human with equal dignity goes beyond politics. While the specific context here was political, but that is only the context, not the principle.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#604

Post by treyd »

wafflemaker wrote: post #216
gr4vityWall wrote: post #119

> Mozilla believes in the value of an open and free (and thus ad-supported) web. > and thus ad-supported What a sad view of the web. Advertisement is a net-negative for society.

Nothing wrong with an unobtrusive, not tracking, banner on a side of a page. Related to what the page is about.

It's a distraction from the content that I actually want to see and I should not have to spend the bandwidth on loading it or the battery on rendering it.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#605

Post by DonHopkins »

eqvinox wrote: post #566
mancerayder wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Brave so persona-non-grata? I find that it's a 'don't ask don't tell' because of some ancient politics. If Firefox is becoming suspect, WHAT is left? I found Chrome+adblockers NOT good enough. I like (and hate) Brave's shield, as I never figured out how to use wildcards to whitelist a whole domain / subdomain, it seems per-host. But that Brave shield WORKS. Now people are going back to Chrome? Really?

The crypto bullshit Brave was (and somehow still is) pulling is way worse than Firefox's enshittificAItion.

[flagged]

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#606

Post by kjkjadksj »

zajio1am wrote: post #484
rchaud wrote: post #474

Disabling ad blocking goes hand in hand with an "AI Browser" strategy. Ad blocking relies on the ability to use filters to block network requests at the browser level, and visual elements at the DOM level. "AI Browsers" are designed to add bloat to the browsing experience, by offering to summarize something, or providing contextual information like say, a product recommendation that pulls data from a third party site…

On the contrary, ad blockers and 'AI browsers' goes hand in hand. On one side is naive browser that displays pages as-is, on the other is user agent that shows what is relevant to the user. Ad blockers are just more static / more deterministic variants of that.

Bold of you to assume ai browser will allow for subverting commercial monetization

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#607

Post by throwaway613745 »

samgranieri wrote: post #589
throwaway613745 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used Firefox as my default browser through thick and thin for damn near two decades. If Mozilla killed andblocking extensions I’d switch to Helium Browser in a heartbeat since they’re maintaining manifest v2 support for uBO and even ship it OOTB. The web is unusable without a proper Adblock.

have you tried using pi-hole or adblock plus running on a raspberry pi on your network? whenever i'm off my home wifi network, i have wireguard configured to connect home and get me that ad blocking. it's so nice. yes, i prefer to use brave for personal stuff and i use edge for work stuff (reasons,,, don't ask)

I ran AdGuard Home for a while but it was causing too many problems for everyone else at home so I stopped.

These days I’m using AdGuard on iOS and ublock origin with Firefox on everything else.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#608

Post by kjkjadksj »

tgv wrote: post #99
twelvechess wrote: post #32

At least there are projects like ladybird coming up to fill their shows

Don't count on it. Have you ever seen how much time and effort has been put in making Firefox, Safari and Chrome compliant and performant? It'll take Ladybird ages to get anywhere near. Someone could try to merge e,g, V8 and Servo, once that's in decent shape. But even then it'll be time consuming to build an acceptable UI, cookie and history management, plugin interface, etc.

Seems like its easier to crack an existing browser and take away stupid features than to build one. Against TOS but I really don’t care.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#609

Post by duped »

graeme wrote: post #599
pavel_lishin wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, if the CEO of some software I used suddenly came out as anti-miscegenation, and started donating money to the cause, I'd stop using the software until the CEO was fired too.

Where this analogy breaks is that at the time (2008), Eich's position had majority support in the US. The proposition he wad funding passed with majority support. Mixed marriages by contrast had overwhelming support in 2008. Eich didn't suddenly come out against anything in 2014. People dug up his prior funding. Demanding permanent ostracization for supporting a majority position is fairly anti-democratic. You can be…

> Demanding permanent ostracization for supporting a majority position is fairly anti-democratic.

It depends a lot on what that position is. Donating your personal wealth to discriminate against a marginalized group, which includes many of your employees is worth calling out.

Segregation was once a "majority position" in this country. Shaming segregationists was a really effective way to change that. For example, George Wallace, who eventually redeemed himself.

Re: Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

#610

Post by bossyTeacher »

guenthert wrote: post #186
nialv7 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interpretation is not the problem. Whether he will do it, is actually secondary to the fact that he thinks cutting adblock can bringing in money. No, it will just kill the browser. The fact he thinks otherwise tells me how out of touch he is.

Is it him or is it you? I'd think within the Mozilla organization is a data trove of telemetry which renders a fairly good picture of how many users actually are using ad blockers.

As a decades long Mozilla fan, who has stayed true to the fox even with the rise of Chrome, Mozilla breaking adblocking would make me uninstall the fox and never come back. I feel that many of the so called greybeards here feel similar. Once adblocking is gone, users will be too and Mozilla will fall faster than Nokia did
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