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Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

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Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#601

Post by sbt567 »

oofbey wrote: post #391
dekhn wrote: post #58

I hadn't paid any attention to rust before uv, but since starting to use uv, I've switched a lot of my performance-sensitive code dev to rust (with interfaces to python). These sorts of improvements really do improve my quality of life significantly. My hope is that conda goes away completely. I run an ML cluster and we have multi-gigabyte conda directories and researchers who can't reproduce anything because just to…

Have you found it easy to write rust modules with python interfaces? What tools do you recommend?

Many people use PyO3 for that

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#602

Post by ShroudedNight »

golem14 wrote: post #490
d4mi3n wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were to put on my security hat, things like this give me shivers. It's one thing if you control the script and specified the dependencies. For any other use-case, you're trusting the script author to not install python dependencies that could be hiding all manner of defects or malicious intent. This isn't a knock against UV, but more a criticism of dynamic dependency resolution. I'd feel much better about this i…

""" uv is straightforward to install. There are a few ways, but the easiest (in my opinion) is this one-liner command — for Linux and Mac, it’s: curl -LsSf https://astral.sh/uv/install.sh | sh """ Also isn't great. But that's how homebrew is installed, so ... shrug ... ? Not to bash uv/homebrew, they are better than most _easy_ alternatives.

I hate that curl $SOMETHING | sh has become normalized. One does not _have_ to blindly pipe something to a shell. It's quite possible to pull the script in a manner that allows examination. That Homebrew also endorses this behaviour doesn't make it any less of a risky abdication of administrative agency.

But then I'm a weirdo that takes personal offense at tools hijacking my rc / PATH, and keep things like homebrew at arm's length, explicitly calling shellenv when I need to use it.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#603

Post by levocardia »

prpl wrote: post #495
gostsamo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I get it, conda is still around because uv is focused on python while conda handles things written in other languages. Unless uv gets much more universal than expected, conda is here to stay.

conda (and its derivatives that are also “conda” now), and conda-forge specifically, are the best ways to install things that will work across operating systems, architectures, and languages - without having to resort to compiling everything. Want to make sure a software stack works well on a Cray with MPI+cuda+MKL, macOS, and ARM linux, with both C++ and Python libraries? It’s possible with conda-forge.

Except the ONE annoying quirk that certain major projects and repos let their conda distribution get stale.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#605

Post by Ferret7446 »

peterfirefly wrote: post #519
hardwaregeek wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never underestimate cultural momentum I guess. NBA players shot long 2 pointers for decades before people realized 3 > 2. Doctors refused to wash their hands before doing procedures. There’s so many things that seem obvious in retrospect but took a long time to become accepted

They did wash their hands. Turns out that soap and water wasn't quite enough. Lister used carbolic acid (for dressing and wound cleaning) and Semmelweis used chlorinated lime (for hand washing).

That was later; earlier in history doctors (or "doctors" if you so insist) did not wash their hands.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#607

Post by hrimfaxi »

peterfirefly wrote: post #519
hardwaregeek wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never underestimate cultural momentum I guess. NBA players shot long 2 pointers for decades before people realized 3 > 2. Doctors refused to wash their hands before doing procedures. There’s so many things that seem obvious in retrospect but took a long time to become accepted

They did wash their hands. Turns out that soap and water wasn't quite enough. Lister used carbolic acid (for dressing and wound cleaning) and Semmelweis used chlorinated lime (for hand washing).

Was soap often used prior to the mid 1800s?

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#608

Post by brightball »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

I tried Python for the first time after I’d been coding with multiple other languages for about 15 years.

The environment, dependency experience created so much friction compared to everything else. Changed my perspective on Docker for local dev.

Glad to hear it seems to finally be fixed.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#609

Post by oconnor663 »

oofbey wrote: post #391
dekhn wrote: post #58

I hadn't paid any attention to rust before uv, but since starting to use uv, I've switched a lot of my performance-sensitive code dev to rust (with interfaces to python). These sorts of improvements really do improve my quality of life significantly. My hope is that conda goes away completely. I run an ML cluster and we have multi-gigabyte conda directories and researchers who can't reproduce anything because just to…

Have you found it easy to write rust modules with python interfaces? What tools do you recommend?

PyO3 and Maturin are excellent. I've been maintaining a Python-module-written-in-Rust for several years now, and it's been quite smooth.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#610

Post by aniforprez »

dsnr wrote: post #163
kyt wrote: post #21

I must be the odd man out but I am not a fan of uv. 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command. 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip. 3. It does not play well with Docker. 4. It adds more complexity. You end up needing to understand all of these new enviro…

This. I was researching uv to replace my pipenv+pyenv setup, but after reading up a bit I decided to just give up. Pipenv is just straightforward and “just works”. Aside from being slow, not much is wrong with it. I’m not in the mood to start configuring uv, a tool that should take me 2 minutes and a “uv —-help” to learn.

> Pipenv is just straightforward and “just works”

I have worked on numerous projects that started with pipenv and it has never "just works" ever. Either there's some trivial dependency conflict that it can't resolve or it's slow as molasses or something or the other. pipenv has been horrible to use. I started switching projects to pip-tools and now I recommend using uv

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