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IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

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Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#601

Post by pjmlp »

bartread wrote: post #600
pjmlp wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swing is still a thing, at least for all of those using JetBrains products, and still comes wiht the JDK, whereas JavaFX was placed into open source, and I think it only carries forward thanks to Gluon's work. In what concerns layout managers in .NET, you could do it in Windows Forms via TableLayoutPanel and FlowLayoutPanel. WPF has always used layout managers from the get go, which is why its drag and drop workflow…

Yeah, but those layout managers came later. I don’t think they were there in the early 2000s. I’ll say this for Microsoft: they supported WinForms, even adding new features, long after it had ceased to be the new hotness. Whether they still do, I don’t know. The last time I touched WinForms was 2013.

.NET 2.0 onwards.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#602

Post by eikenberry »

int_19h wrote: post #592
eikenberry wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But GUIs never took off as a UI for a general purpose computer, they became the UI for application on a general purpose computer. For them to be the former requires them to be programmable. Smalltalk is the best/most-famous example of a Graphical UI for a general purpose computer I can think of... The main point is that for a general purpose computer the UI needs to integrate programming. Programming is how you use a…

CLI is also specific to apps in practice, and I don't see any obvious difference between scripted CLI and scripted (with the likes of Active Scripting or AppleScript, or for that matter Tcl etc) GUI apps.

The difference is that you don't use Active Scripting, AppleScript, TCL, etc. as your primary UI. The shell is a script-able UI.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#603

Post by eikenberry »

igouy wrote: post #584
eikenberry wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But GUIs never took off as a UI for a general purpose computer, they became the UI for application on a general purpose computer. For them to be the former requires them to be programmable. Smalltalk is the best/most-famous example of a Graphical UI for a general purpose computer I can think of... The main point is that for a general purpose computer the UI needs to integrate programming. Programming is how you use a…

Is a modern phone a general purpose computer? What kind-of UI does a modern phone present?

A modern phone is not a general purpose computer. They are proprietary, locked down devices. Appliances.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#604

Post by igouy »

eikenberry wrote: post #603
igouy wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a modern phone a general purpose computer? What kind-of UI does a modern phone present?

A modern phone is not a general purpose computer. They are proprietary, locked down devices. Appliances.

"The PinePhone is a smartphone that empowers users with control over the device. It is capable of running mainline Linux, features hardware privacy switches, and is designed for open-source enthusiasts."

Perhaps I simply failed to see your definition of "a general purpose computer".

Please say what rules must be passed to meet your definition.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#605

Post by VB6-Programming »

sheepscreek wrote: post #357

> Visual Basic was the pinnacle of graphics programming I am still shocked how no tool since has managed to come even close to VB. You could easily develop a moderately complex GUI application that felt snappy in an afternoon. C# with WinForms is the second closest to that. All other iterations since have not been designed with individual developers in mind, sadly. A powerful developing alternative to this paradigm c…

Take a look at the twinBASIC programming language. VB6 compatible and can import VB6 source code and forms and adds modern features too.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#606

Post by bartread »

pjmlp wrote: post #601
bartread wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but those layout managers came later. I don’t think they were there in the early 2000s. I’ll say this for Microsoft: they supported WinForms, even adding new features, long after it had ceased to be the new hotness. Whether they still do, I don’t know. The last time I touched WinForms was 2013.

.NET 2.0 onwards.

Yeah, that was around 2005, wasn't it.

Where I was working, for maximum compatibility with customers, I was still working on .NET 1.1 until I want to say 2006/7, when we moved to .NET 2.0. EDIT: it was actually 2006 because the project I was leading integrated with SQL Server Managment Studio, which forced us to use .NET 2.0. We were one of the first two projects to make the jump.

I don't think we moved to anything WPF capable until .NET 4 came out in 2010 or so, except for perhaps one project that had moved to .NET 3.5 so they could take advantage of an early version of ASP.NET MVC.

Believe it or not, when I showed up in 2004, we were still running on .NET 1.0 and Visual Studio 2002, which did not support extensions, so no Resharper... which was a nightmare given I'd just been using IntelliJ IDEA. Moving to VS2002 was an absolutely horrible regression.

So I want to say I'd managed to argue the case for .NET 1.1 and VS2003 by the end of 2004, or maybe very early 2005... which meant us devs could at least install ReSharper and have a much better time as a result.

Re: IDEs we had 30 years ago and lost (2023)

#607

Post by Brian_K_White »

lproven wrote: post #535
Brian_K_White wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A hundred years ago I found something called XWPE and managed to build it for sco osr5, and then pretty much never used it for real. (That doesn't imply I went with VS or similar fat ide, just that I didn't end up using xwpe for real. I tried code::blocks for a while but mostly just use geany or a plain editor.)

Try Tilde. https://github.com/gphalkes/tilde

They commandere the break key to use it for cut & paste? oh hell no. But thank you anyway, I understand the suggestion was well meant and it does look nice.
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