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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#601

Post by jacquesm »

daan-k wrote: post #454
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Some new information has just emerged in the Dutch press. According to a just published article by the NRC newspaper [0], the owner wanted to use Nexperia's funds to finance another business (WingSkySemi) which was in financial trouble. He would have done this by making Nexperia place large orders for wafers it did not need. The article mentions Nexperia only requiring $70-80 million in wafers, while Nexperia would h…

What is interesting here is that for obvious reasons the Chinese do not seem to understand - or be able to understand - that NL actually has an independent institute for handling such disputes that will operate with a fairly high degree of impartiality. Abusing funds of one company and jeopardizing its existence in order to prop up a non-related entity abroad is precisely the kind of situation why we have this institution in the first place. Mismanagement is - regardless of who the shareholders are - also something that we frown upon here and there actually is a mechanism to directly intervene in the case of such actions. Seeing the 3 top financial people replaced with strawmen and funneling large amounts of money abroad to buy things the company does not need is a surefire recipe for intervention. This would have also happened if the CEO had been dutch and the shareholders had been dutch, we actually had such a case in the last few years where the top guy (founder, even) at one of our larger IT companies lost his marbles.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#602

Post by wslh »

wjSgoWPm5bWAhXB wrote: post #486
onetimeusename wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has happened and not a lot came of it. Venezuela nationalized American oil projects under Hugo Chavez. If by hell breaking loose you mean law suits I guess so.

Also, no hell broke loose when Argentina nationalized YPF.

What do you exactly mean? I am familiar with YPF nationalization.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#603

Post by jacquesm »

tinco wrote: post #473
daan-k wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some new information has just emerged in the Dutch press. According to a just published article by the NRC newspaper [0], the owner wanted to use Nexperia's funds to finance another business (WingSkySemi) which was in financial trouble. He would have done this by making Nexperia place large orders for wafers it did not need. The article mentions Nexperia only requiring $70-80 million in wafers, while Nexperia would h…

I am sort of surprised we even have an arm of government quick and authoritative enough to be able to intervene here. I always assumed the government would just let any frogs boil.

De ondernemingskamer is not a paper tiger. Ask Sanderink about that.

They rarely make decisions that I disagree with, even if I realize I usually don't have all of the facts. Business continuity, employees, shareholders, customers. Those are the priorities and management is definitely not acting with impunity. The shareholder angle here is an interesting one, that route has been stopped off preemptively it seems.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#604

Post by jacquesm »

slipnslider wrote: post #566
tinco wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sort of surprised we even have an arm of government quick and authoritative enough to be able to intervene here. I always assumed the government would just let any frogs boil.

I am too. Although it appears computer and computer machinery, like chips amongst others, are the 2nd largest export[1]. I'm guessing these types of companies are very important to economic stability within the country and economic posturing in outside the company in global trade. [1] https://www.worldstopexports.com/netherlands-top-10-exports/

We really would like to keep these companies alive. Geely buying Volvo is a nice example of a proper acquisition and Geely has - as far as I know - always played by the rules. What happened here would not fly under any management and China should take note, ownership does not give a pass to 'do as you please', we have many stakeholders including employees and customers, not just owners and managers.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#605

Post by tinco »

jacquesm wrote: post #603
tinco wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sort of surprised we even have an arm of government quick and authoritative enough to be able to intervene here. I always assumed the government would just let any frogs boil.

De ondernemingskamer is not a paper tiger. Ask Sanderink about that. They rarely make decisions that I disagree with, even if I realize I usually don't have all of the facts. Business continuity, employees, shareholders, customers. Those are the priorities and management is definitely not acting with impunity. The shareholder angle here is an interesting one, that route has been stopped off preemptively it seems.

So it seems, but also this seems to have been dragging along since 2023 so it's less sudden than the press makes it seem. The contract with WSS that's underlying the complaint by the former management has apparently been allowed to progress to the point where the US is threatening to simply consider Nexperia a Chinese company for the purposes of sanctions.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#606

Post by throw73949558 »

jacquesm wrote: post #601
daan-k wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some new information has just emerged in the Dutch press. According to a just published article by the NRC newspaper [0], the owner wanted to use Nexperia's funds to finance another business (WingSkySemi) which was in financial trouble. He would have done this by making Nexperia place large orders for wafers it did not need. The article mentions Nexperia only requiring $70-80 million in wafers, while Nexperia would h…

What is interesting here is that for obvious reasons the Chinese do not seem to understand - or be able to understand - that NL actually has an independent institute for handling such disputes that will operate with a fairly high degree of impartiality. Abusing funds of one company and jeopardizing its existence in order to prop up a non-related entity abroad is precisely the kind of situation why we have this instit…

They needed wafers for 70 million, were going to order for 200 million. 3x more is hardly "funneling large amounts of money".

I would call that typical way to run business, perhaps they were making supplies for next three years, before tariffs kick in... Perhaps they were going to expand.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#607

Post by jacquesm »

tinco wrote: post #605
jacquesm wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De ondernemingskamer is not a paper tiger. Ask Sanderink about that. They rarely make decisions that I disagree with, even if I realize I usually don't have all of the facts. Business continuity, employees, shareholders, customers. Those are the priorities and management is definitely not acting with impunity. The shareholder angle here is an interesting one, that route has been stopped off preemptively it seems.

So it seems, but also this seems to have been dragging along since 2023 so it's less sudden than the press makes it seem. The contract with WSS that's underlying the complaint by the former management has apparently been allowed to progress to the point where the US is threatening to simply consider Nexperia a Chinese company for the purposes of sanctions.

And rightly so. The timeline here is fairly typical: until the day there is a judgment nothing changes and going through the process usually takes a while. And then everything changes at once. It is clear that they were no longer making decisions in the interest of Nexperia or its customers but solely to benefit Zhang's interests. What is interesting is that Wingtech actually was being defrauded but chose not to act. That's the bit that doesn't make sense to me, unless Zhang also controls Wingtech somehow. In one article it was said that they bought many more wafers than needed in order to destroy them, that's textbook mismanagement.

China, meanwhile has announced 'retaliatory measures', which seems a bit silly because that will just hurt their own exports, and shows that it wasn't necessarily Zhang that was the problem but someone much higher up in the party structure.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#608

Post by jacquesm »

throw73949558 wrote: post #606
jacquesm wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is interesting here is that for obvious reasons the Chinese do not seem to understand - or be able to understand - that NL actually has an independent institute for handling such disputes that will operate with a fairly high degree of impartiality. Abusing funds of one company and jeopardizing its existence in order to prop up a non-related entity abroad is precisely the kind of situation why we have this instit…

They needed wafers for 70 million, were going to order for 200 million. 3x more is hardly "funneling large amounts of money". I would call that typical way to run business, perhaps they were making supplies for next three years, before tariffs kick in... Perhaps they were going to expand.

That's a funny thing to say, assuming it is in jest. Of course, just spending 130 million on stuff that you don't need only to destroy it is perfectly normal in the course of running a business. Not. A hundred million here, a hundred there, before you know it it is real money.

What's with all the throwaway accounts on this thread anyway?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#609

Post by jacquesm »

h45gJaqk wrote: post #74

The timing is weird, just after Trump's latest escalation with China. Using The Netherlands to fall into the sword would fit with the general tactics of dumping the Ukraine war on the EU and trying to sour their relations with China. That way, the U.S. is free to control all oil resources in the Middle East and conquer new ones in Venezuela. The EU gets nothing but enemies and higher oil and gas prices. In principle…

The NL authorities are on the record saying that they did not act under foreign pressure.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#610

Post by Ray20 »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #539
cma256 wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that point but you would need evidence which showed trade with dictatorships resulted in peace in Europe. To that point, my gut reaction is that peace in Europe is a product of internal politics, MAD, American imperialism, and global trade (in that order). The past fifty years may just be an exceptional footnote. Fifty years is not a significant period of time and the peace we have endured has not bee…

One can argue about the causes -- and no doubt there are many, the biggest IMO being that WW2 was so horrific that Europeans were willing to do anything to prevent it again -- but there's no disputing that the last 75 years of peace in Europe is unprecedented in its long history of near-continuous inter-state warfare for the past ~2000 years (since "Pax Romana").

> WW2 was so horrific that Europeans were willing to do anything to prevent it again

But this is total childish nonsense. We gained 75 years of peace in Europe not because the war was terrible, but because the entire world was divided between the USA and the USSR. And, as it happened, these two countries decided not to fight each other in a full-scale war.

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