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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work better with you sitting next to them /s

You /s, but that's actually a fair point - Some people work better at home, away from the office - Some people work better in the office, with their co-workers around them Those two facts are at direct odds with each other. It's unfortunate, but you can't give both groups what they want.

There is a third group: I work better from office when all the noisy coworkers are at home.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, we're the highest paid profession, and the work isn't that difficult either.

The owners of the companies we work for are making more money than us, off the value we create through our work, simply by through ownership itself. How’s that for compensation vs difficulty?

If you think that’s an easier route, I doubt it’s ever been easier to found a company and own almost all of it.

On this very site is a link at the bottom to apply for substantial funding and help in succeeding at a modest cost of equity. But if it’s easy enough that you don’t even need that help, you can own it all.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#603
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s just another tool in the downsizing toolbox. Also traditional layoffs and RTO “layoffs” don’t have to be mutually exclusive, both can easily occur at the same time

you're still avoiding the question. Why does Microsoft decide RTO "layoffs" are the right tool for 2025, but not 2022-2024? Many companies used both tools at the same time. Why did Microsoft wait until 2025?

Because it's politically expedient. They know the political climate is currently hostile to them requesting H1Bs while doing layoffs. RTO lets them get another round of layoffs without calling them layoffs and avoid the bad PR.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#604

At $org, we too are undertaking a mandatory RTO order, enforced with door access logs. People are up in arms, particularly those in our smaller locales, where the offices we have are perfunctory at best. The rationale is the usual one: collaboration, watercooler chat, unspecific evidence / "research" about productivity (that we are told definitely exists, but is yet to be shared). I remain baffled by executives' obse…

> I remain baffled by executives' obsession with RTO It's because although many people do work well in RTO, the vast majority don't. And the various TikTok videos showing "Day in the life of a remote worker" didn't help the cause either. I worked at a fully remote company during the pandemic and trying to get people online was almost impossible. They would disappear for hours and I would be blocked by them and it was…

> They would disappear for hours and I would be blocked by them and it was one of the most frustrating experiences in my career.

If you’re being blocked by someone online, you’d be blocked offline too.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#605
post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 is very real. Sometimes even openly so, as in an executive telling it out loud. > And nobody is dumb enough to do RTO as a layoff proxy because anybody with a brain knows you're going to lose the people with options, who are exactly the people you don't want to lose. Here is what our CEO told me once: layoffs always mean you loose more people then those you just fired. That is unavoidable and can amount to addition…

Well RTO mandate means you lose ONLY the good people with other options or make the people with no options have animosity since the deal was changed

You wont loose only the good people. You will loose the usual mix. Plenty of slackers or not good people are fully capable to make their way through interviews. That is how they got here, after all.

It is always just pure wishful thinking that "all the people you will loose when you alienate someone like me" are totally the best people out there.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#606

At $org, we too are undertaking a mandatory RTO order, enforced with door access logs. People are up in arms, particularly those in our smaller locales, where the offices we have are perfunctory at best. The rationale is the usual one: collaboration, watercooler chat, unspecific evidence / "research" about productivity (that we are told definitely exists, but is yet to be shared). I remain baffled by executives' obse…

> I still have no idea where it comes from. I work at a company that tracks productivity in many ways and even the screentime of each employee. I'm quite sure remote employees or even hybrid employees on their WFH days, spend less time on the screen or doing things productivity trackers track compared to in office colleagues.

Productivity tracker that tracks sport/fashion/travel chats for hours, dozens of smoke breaks and employees shitting every 16 minutes – very advanced tech.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owners of the companies we work for are making more money than us, off the value we create through our work, simply by through ownership itself. How’s that for compensation vs difficulty?

If you believe that is the case, it is very simple to use some of that pay to buy a slice of that ownership via your preferred brokerage application.

It’s a wonder that people still work for a living when all you have to do is buy a share of SPY, suddenly elevating you to same level as your boss.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#608
post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, we're the highest paid profession, and the work isn't that difficult either.

Only if you're talking about US market.

Can you call out any other market where another profession is as highly paid and accessible?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#609

Threads like these are always one sided with people against RTO. What I would really like to see is arguments from the other side. Can someone steelman RTO. Preferably with evidence, anecdotal or otherwise.

The other is too busy managing burnout to argue.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTO mandates are about many things, but actual business value of being in the office to the business doing the mandate is low on the list. Among the things it is about: (1) Executives with emotional attachment to certain leadership styles that are enabled by physical presence, (2) Interest in the investor class for the commercial real estate market. The business impacted may not be invested in it, but the businesses’…

2 and 3 aren't real. Nobody gives a damn about their shareholders other investments, and no one company has the numbers to save them anyway. And nobody is dumb enough to do RTO as a layoff proxy because anybody with a brain knows you're going to lose the people with options, who are exactly the people you don't want to lose. 1 is spot on.

> nobody is dumb enough to do RTO as a layoff proxy

I wouldn’t be so sure of that…

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