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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#601

Post by anikom15 »

specproc wrote: post #335
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

Your day-to-day life may have been the same, but that does not mean everyone's lives would be.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#602

Post by anikom15 »

yachad wrote: post #547
Rover222 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very different than worrying about going to jail for life or getting disappeared.

So what? Lose your job, lose your housing. Prison is at least 3 hots and a cot.

Some people value freedom more than comfort.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#603

Post by causal »

hiatus wrote: post #560
causal wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, missing the point - it is a system that has become a centralized digital scoring mechanism. This is dangerous because it centralizes power, giving institutions that are not even under democratic control the power to punish individuals or groups as they see fit across all sectors of life.

This is sensational. You said > Credit scores are used for a lot more than finances. but you can't provide a concrete example. > giving institutions that are not even under democratic control Which institutions? Banks? Landlords? Other people trusting you with their property? > the power to punish individuals or groups as they see fit across all sectors of life. Where? How?

Many examples were given, please read the linked article. And again, in a society where everything is monetized, you can argue that creditworthiness is a just proxy for anything. So if basic water and electric access or housing access can be, so can anything else where you pay money for a service. You could argue dating apps should have access to credit scores and I wouldn't be surprised if some tried.

> Which institutions?

Credit bureaus...

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#604

Post by makeitdouble »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #576
specproc wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

It sure is good being a foreigner in an autocratic country. You are most likely there there for business. You don’t really care about anything because you will leave anyway. Most of my coworkers in Singapore were all like that. Who cares about the mass deportation of bus drivers after their strikes for better working condition? Why look at what’s behind the curtain when you can enjoy the pool? I have met people who h…

> Then life is not ok at all and there is approximately nothing you can do about it.

To return to parent's point, we want to say it applies only in autocratic countries, when we have similar pockets of despair as well.

Not everyone can just "fight the man" if they feel prayed upon or abused. Most here can probably solve critical issues with money or even move countries if/when shit hits the fan.

But lower social class people aren't in that mindset, and the power local authorities hold on their life is a lot heavier.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#605

Post by saghm »

ElevenLathe wrote: post #598
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I did that, I would expect that I would get some dirty looks. I might get yelled at. I might even get beaten up (by private individuals, not by the authorities). The cops might come by and cite me for disturbing the peace. I would not be disappeared. I would not be charged with a felony. I would not be imprisoned for years or decades. And, where the rubber meets the road for my personal mental health: I can say wh…

A lot has changed since January. You absolutely should worry about being disappeared, and about your family and friends ratting you to ICE/FBI/etc (the distinction is moot under the unitary executive theory under which our new regime operates). It may be unlikely today, for you specifically (assuming you're someone from a favored ethnicity and class, espouse only political views within the range of acceptable orthodo…

> It may be unlikely today, for you specifically (assuming you're someone from a favored ethnicity and class, espouse only political views within the range of acceptable orthodoxy, etc), but your immigrant/trans/pro-palestine neighbors are not as safe as you are, and the window of acceptable types of American is narrowing.

Thank you, that's a much more concise way of stating exactly what I meant

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#606

Post by singleshot_ »

rafaelmn wrote: post #510
specproc wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

> Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. This is a wild take, unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in…

It is worth noting that the EOP OSC is investigating Jack Smith and the DOJ is investigating Letitia James.

This suggests the worst that could happen if you called the US President a criminal liar is that you would go to federal prison.

I suppose the conclusion is that the US is an autocracy.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#607

Post by hiatus »

causal wrote: post #603
hiatus wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sensational. You said > Credit scores are used for a lot more than finances. but you can't provide a concrete example. > giving institutions that are not even under democratic control Which institutions? Banks? Landlords? Other people trusting you with their property? > the power to punish individuals or groups as they see fit across all sectors of life. Where? How?

Many examples were given, please read the linked article. And again, in a society where everything is monetized, you can argue that creditworthiness is a just proxy for anything. So if basic water and electric access or housing access can be, so can anything else where you pay money for a service. You could argue dating apps should have access to credit scores and I wouldn't be surprised if some tried. > Which instit…

What do you think credit is? Anytime someone gives you something and you pay later on, that's on credit. They have to trust you to some extent. If every vendor had to perform due diligence of every potential client I would expect things to get even more expensive or just altogether deny service to people outright.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#608

Post by cindyllm »

makeitdouble wrote: post #604
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sure is good being a foreigner in an autocratic country. You are most likely there there for business. You don’t really care about anything because you will leave anyway. Most of my coworkers in Singapore were all like that. Who cares about the mass deportation of bus drivers after their strikes for better working condition? Why look at what’s behind the curtain when you can enjoy the pool? I have met people who h…

> Then life is not ok at all and there is approximately nothing you can do about it. To return to parent's point, we want to say it applies only in autocratic countries, when we have similar pockets of despair as well. Not everyone can just "fight the man" if they feel prayed upon or abused. Most here can probably solve critical issues with money or even move countries if/when shit hits the fan. But lower social clas…

[dead]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#609

Post by makeitdouble »

rafaelmn wrote: post #510
specproc wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

> Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. This is a wild take, unless you mean that in thw sense of wake up, eat, work and sleep kind of way. If I call the prime minister a criminal liar - worst that will happen is I get a defamation lawsuit. In authoritarian countries I go to a prison camp, and the neighbors are the one to report me. Even if I'm not political - if step on toes of people in…

What would happen if you deeply insulted a cop at night during a routine check ?

What would be the impact on your life of publicly calling names your company's CEO on social media ? You make it sound like a defamation lawsuit is peanuts, when you'd probably be fighting against an army of lawyer while you're unemployed, if you're in the US that definitely sounds like a life defining event.

I also wonder if most authoritarian régimes even have prison camps ?

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