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Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

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Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#601

Post by bogwog »

dude250711 wrote: post #18

Anti-monopoly laws are good, but how about some harsh anti-duopoly laws? Could also hit the iOS-Android bird with the same stone!

The problem isn't the lack of laws, it's the lack of enforcement. Biden's FTC gave us a glimpse of what a working antitrust enforcer could look like, and it caused a bunch of influential billionaires to switch political allegiances.

There's no escaping the politics here. You can't enforce antitrust without hitting the billionaire class directly, and those people know how to influence American politics in their favor. Just look at what happened to the "click to cancel" rule post-Trump, something that is unambiguously pro-consumer and exactly the type of thing the FTC should be doing.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#602

Post by account42 »

nwallin wrote: post #553
btown wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the goalposts shift to: “This isn’t for reputational risk, it’s because we consider fraud more likely for this type of industry, and we are within our rights to take a proactive approach to fraud.” And there is no requirement that they disclose the reasons for that decision. Don’t get me wrong: it’s progress. But it’s far from a panacea.

It would be a hard sell to finger Steam as being at high risk of fraud. Steam has a very generous refund policy, and if you don't consider it generous enough, and chargeback a purchase on your Steam account, they just lock it (and access to all your games) until you pay them. I don't have insider information about how often Steam gets hit with fraud alleged chargebacks, but I can't imagine it's a significant percenta…

> Steam has a very generous refund policy

It doesn't.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#603

Post by jay-barronville »

shagie wrote: post #427
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the US is not the world police and that’s okay. Let Australians deal with Australian laws and Australian lobbying groups.

... and risk adverse international companies (like Visa and Mastercard) need to follow the laws everywhere despite what various jurisdictions shield them from in those jurisdictions.

If an American company chooses to enter a foreign market and do business there, they should be subject to the laws and customs of said market. The complexity that comes with it is their problem to deal with. I echo the earlier sentiment that the U.S. shouldn't be the world's police (although we do behave like that now).

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#604

Post by khalic »

jksflkjl3jk3 wrote: post #596
khalic wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing incest games is not a burden to society

> Removing incest games is not a burden to society It is to those who enjoy playing them. Are you suggesting that playing a game involving incest is somehow unacceptable, while a game with graphic murder is fine? It's a strange moral line to draw, and despite what you may think, your views are not shared by everyone.

Yes it’s exactly what I’m saying

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#605

Post by bigyabai »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #590
rob74 wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the far right are the ones dismantling federal agencies like the EPA, the FDA, USAID etc., sending the army to police states they don't like, firing the person responsible for jobs statistics because they don't like the numbers, slapping 50% tarrifs on countries because they dared to prosecute one of Trump's buddies etc. (just some of the latest examples). The "far left" (as the far right likes to call anyone who…

https://x.com/the_jefferymead/status/1944493236170403960 https://x.com/pr0ud_americans/status/1917906982624731624

Are you willing to link to a reputable news outlet instead? Or is that "anti-conservative censorship" too?

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#606

Post by amiga386 »

jfyi wrote: post #592
amiga386 wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They absolutely targeted paysafe and paypall OK, I read the link. They targeted Paysafe and PayPal AND VISA AND MASTERCARD AND DISCOVER AND JCB. All of them, in no particular order. Why did you not mention those? Why are Valve's and Itch's payment processors, instead of citing their own policies, citing MasterCard's policies? If "MasterCard doesn't care" then section 5.12.7 "Illegal or Brand-damaging Transactions"…

Ok, I'll assume good faith and answer that. I didn't mention those because you weren't questioning them. I feel that is kind of obvious. >(not PayPal or Paysafe)... As to paypal's policy... https://www.paypal.com/us/cshelp/article/what-is-paypal%E2%8... >We don't permit PayPal account holders to buy or sell: Sexually oriented digital goods or content delivered through a digital medium. Examples of digital goods inclu…

So the question is, could both Valve and Itch take on several payment processors, and choose which game on their store goes through which processor? Or would porn-shy processors have blanket rules saying your whole company can't have any porn in the same store, even if it's locked away, even if you use not-us to process payments for it?

And secondly, let's say Valve moves to a porn-friendly processor (Itch has said it's looking for one, not that it's found one). MasterCard clearly has a rule, right there in black and white, saying don't facilitate this particular type of porn. How do you think it will look if for any potential processor, and MasterCard, if Valve switches processor and continues accepting MasterCard payments for games in direct contravention of MasterCards's given rule, while the world's press, and the angry lobby group, is watching?

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#607

Post by thrwaway55 »

account42 wrote: post #602
nwallin wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a hard sell to finger Steam as being at high risk of fraud. Steam has a very generous refund policy, and if you don't consider it generous enough, and chargeback a purchase on your Steam account, they just lock it (and access to all your games) until you pay them. I don't have insider information about how often Steam gets hit with fraud alleged chargebacks, but I can't imagine it's a significant percenta…

> Steam has a very generous refund policy It doesn't.

Can you provide counter examples? I've legitimately never had a refund refused within the terms they outlined.

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#608

Post by [deleted] »

perihelions wrote: post #49
roenxi wrote: post #13

The US has some clear laws against government controlling speech and, in the abstract, that makes it pretty much impossible to censor games. Various factions - exactly who it is difficult to pin down - have been working hard to set up a system where they can shut things down without ever explicitly instructing anyone to do anything. This appears to be the system engaging by accident because some crazy from Australia…

> "The US has some clear laws against government controlling speech and, in the abstract, that makes it pretty much impossible to censor games." For background, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchan... ( "Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association" (2011) ( "ruling that video games were protected speech under the First Amendment as other forms of media" ))

[deleted]

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#609

Post by silverliver »

p_ing wrote: post #67
perihelions wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The US has some clear laws against government controlling speech and, in the abstract, that makes it pretty much impossible to censor games." For background, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchan... ( "Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association" (2011) ( "ruling that video games were protected speech under the First Amendment as other forms of media" ))

First Amendment applies to the _government_, not private entities.

I would argue that entities such as VISA and Mastercard have so much power that they are government-like entities and should be treated as such (i.e. a common carrier).

Re: Mastercard deflects blame for NSFW games being taken down

#610

Post by john_the_writer »

efitz wrote: post #371
rob74 wrote: post #351

So... Mastercard's statement is very clear: > Put simply, we allow all lawful purchases on our network. But their "Rule 5.12.7" is... not so clear: > A Merchant must not submit to its Acquirer, and a Customer must not submit to the Interchange System, any Transaction that is illegal, or in the sole discretion of the Corporation, may damage the goodwill of the Corporation or reflect negatively on the Marks. Well, whic…

We need Congress to make a law here in the US that businesses involved in facilitating financial transactions in the United States are considered “common carriers” and must not discriminate against, cancel or disadvantage any customer or legal transaction, without a court order. We can write language to allow booting people for fraud, hacking, etc if “legal” + “court order” are insufficient.

Nah.. Congress won't. When paypal stopped payments to wiki-leaks Congress was happy as to close their eyes.
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