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Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

helsinkitimes.fi

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Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#601

Post by jamesblonde »

Aurornis wrote: post #590
muzani wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, gig riders will run red lights because it ends up increasing their pay for the day by about 30%. They're not being 'exploited' into starvation level pay; some make twice the salary of a factory worker. The ones working 13 hrs/day make the equivalent of a marketing director or bank manager. Most of the accidents I've been in have been people rushing to work or rushing to pick up relatives from the airpor…

You don’t even need a financial incentive for people to start normalizing traffic violations. Once enough people start doing something and it becomes impossible to ignore the fact that nobody is getting cited for it, the behavior spreads. I remember traveling to a European country where drivers were angrily honking their horns at me for stopping at red lights (with no cross traffic) and stop signs. After one close ca…

In many european countries, a right-turn can be a red light (green for pedestrians crossing) and if there are no pedestrians around, you can run the red light. That's prob what was happening.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#602

Post by BirAdam »

bluedino wrote: post #536
pavlov wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in rural Finland 17-year-old boys who just got their license regularly end up killing themselves and their friends by reckless driving. I believe there is cultural issue with boys’ upbringing. Recently my 8-year-old daughter was spending a week with her mother’s relatives in middle Finland. One day she sent me a picture of an old Volvo in a ditch. “Guess what dad, my cousin drove it off the road and I was in the…

The urban America equivalent are teenage to twenty something males crashing Dodge Chargers at high speeds at 2:00am

In the South, this is an issue everywhere, not just cities. Any vehicle, even mildly capable, will be wrecked by young men traveling way too fast, on dangerous roads, and often inebriated.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#603

Post by gs17 »

Mawr wrote: post #532
Saline9515 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not exactly true. First, many (most?) cyclists do not respect basic road safety rules, such as signaling when you turn, or respecting red lights. Let's not talk about safety behavior, such wearing a helmet or repressing the urge to listen music while riding a bike (I know, crazy, right?). In France, each dataset shows consistently that accidents are very often caused by cyclists. 35% of the deadly accidents i…

> First, many (most?) cyclists do not respect basic road safety rules Wonderful, and the least safety conscious cyclist in the world is still largely only a danger to himself. > In France, each dataset shows consistently that accidents are very often caused by cyclists. 35% of the deadly accidents involving another road user were caused by cyclists So including accidents in which the cyclists themselves died then? >…

> Wonderful, and the least safety conscious cyclist in the world is still largely only a danger to himself.

Pedestrians are people too, and we're often in danger from cyclists who think they have right of way with no speed limit on sidewalks (very often on roads with bike lanes, for reasons that confuse me), or who think stop signs and lights shouldn't apply to them and hit us. I've been in situations where if I hadn't been very lucky my choice would have been between getting hit by a bike or a car. My parents or grandparents would not be so lucky, they would simply have to get hit.

And then there's the suicidal behavior, e.g. a cyclist who has decided that crossing a 5 lane road should not require waiting for a break in traffic, which could easily cause the cars to have an accident from trying to avoid hitting them.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#604

Post by IshKebab »

gmac wrote: post #492
IshKebab wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The results are basically universally in favour of speed enforcement reducing motor vehicle collisions, reducing injury and cost. Yeah this argument comes up a lot in the UK from people advocating 20mph speed limits everywhere. It's a super dumb argument though. Obviously increasing speed is never going to decrease danger. But if "slower is safer" is the only argument for 20mph then the logical conclusion is 0mph.…

Speed, of course, affects not just how many accidents there are but also how bad they are. A key argument for 20mph is that collisions with pedestrians at this speed are mostly survivable. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmtl...

> mostly survivable

Collisions at 15mph would be even more survivable though.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#605

Post by gs17 »

connicpu wrote: post #321
throwaway998772 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, now I'll have the 0.02% chance of surviving a collision with a scooter that slaloms on any possible walkable terrain, instead of a 0.01% chance of surviving a collision with a car that won't hit me because they don't drive on sidewalks.

Scooters shouldn't feel the need to drive on sidewalks when the speed limit is 30km/h

They do it for the same reason cyclists do it. They value their safety and comfort over the pedestrians'. Riding in the road means cars, riding on the sidewalk means people who will jump out of your way.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#606

Post by lanfeust6 »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #298
lanfeust6 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helsinki didn't achieve this with bike lanes.

From the article: > Cycling and walking infrastructure has been expanded in recent years, helping to separate vulnerable road users from motor traffic. > Helsinki’s current traffic safety strategy runs from 2022 to 2026 and includes special measures to protect pedestrians, children, and cyclists.

With no numbers offered. Lots of cities "expanded" cycling infrastructure but can't boast that level of safety. By far the strongest distinguising factor is the speed limit. That is a mere policy that doesnt cost taxpayers billions, it works, and therefore is politically viable.

"Special measures" is not just code for bike lanes either.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#607

Post by gs17 »

matsemann wrote: post #182
arp242 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bike lanes make lives actively worse for everyone. Except for ... cyclists?

And pedestrians that then don't get cyclists on the pavements. And drivers getting less congestion. Someone seriously claiming cycle lanes is bad for a city knows little about urban planning.

> And pedestrians that then don't get cyclists on the pavements

If only. Here roads with bike lanes (protected lanes!) get even more cyclists on the sidewalk. I've asked a few and they seem to trust the sidewalk to be better quality and the obstacles on sidewalk don't need them to slow down often, because people tend to jump out of the way.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#608

Post by jcgl »

theluketaylor wrote: post #551
jcgl wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reduced length is doubtless a big part of how they seem able operate successfully in the urban fabric. It’d be unthinkable with American-sized trucks and trailers. Tangentially, the smaller ambulances and fire trucks here seem so much more sensible than what you see in America. Generally, I’d remark that many city design problems get easier if you can scale down the problem. In this case, the problem of managing…

North American fire departments are among the biggest blockers of urban road safety improvements here, demanding huge lanes for huge trucks. Those lanes leave tons of space for other drivers, leaving them feeling safe to speed, resulting in more carnage when pedestrians are hit. Those huge trucks are also all custom built chassis and incredibly expensive. European fire departments using customized versions of off the…

My only familiarity with what you’re saying comes from a Not Just Bikes video. Pretty striking, though I’ve not done any research to corroborate it.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#609

Post by crowbahr »

crooked-v wrote: post #580
muzani wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, gig riders will run red lights because it ends up increasing their pay for the day by about 30%. They're not being 'exploited' into starvation level pay; some make twice the salary of a factory worker. The ones working 13 hrs/day make the equivalent of a marketing director or bank manager. Most of the accidents I've been in have been people rushing to work or rushing to pick up relatives from the airpor…

> some make twice the salary of a factory worker Keep in mind vehicle depreciation and maintenance costs, though.

The cost of a delivery ebike can be recouped in a month or two.
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