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Study mode

openai.com

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Re: Study mode

#601

Post by johnnyanmac »

jlebar wrote: post #592
teiferer wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. That trained and sharpened invaluable skills involving critical thinking and grit.

> [Trawling around online for information] trained and sharpened invaluable skills involving critical thinking and grit. Here's what Socrates had to say about the invention of writing. > "For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will disc…

>I mean, he wasn't wrong! But nonetheless I think most of us communicating on an online forum would probably prefer not to go back to a world without writing. :)

What social value is an AI chatbot giving to us here, though?

>You could say similar things about the internet (getting your ass to the library taught the importance of learning)

Yes, and as we speak countries are determining how to handle the advent of social media as this centralized means of propaganda, abuse vector, and general way to disconnect local communities. It clearly has a different magnitude of impact than etching on a stone tablet. The UK made a particularly controversial decision recently.

I see AI more in that camp than in the one of pencil erasers.

Re: Study mode

#602

Post by johnnyanmac »

zvmaz wrote: post #387
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

The fear of asking stupid questions is real, especially if one has had a bad experience with humiliating teachers or professors. I just recently saw a video of a professor subtly shaming and humiliating his students for answering questions to his own online quiz. He teaches at a prestigious institution and has a book that has a very good reputation. I stopped watching his video lectures.

So instead of correcting the teachers with better training, we retreat from education and give it to technocrats? Why are we so afraid of punishing bad, unproductive, and even illegal behavior in 2025?

Re: Study mode

#603

Post by ookblah »

leave it up to HN to once again choose the most black/white this or that extreme positions as if having a 24/7 tutor that isn't perfect is somehow worse than having nothing at all. if it hallucinates you keep digging and correlate with sources to figure out if it's true, or you ask other people.

the internet, wikipedia, SO, etc. all these things had the EXACT same arguments against it and guess what? people who want to use TOOLS that help them to study better will gain, and people who are lazy will ...be worse off as it has always been.

i don't know why i bother to engage in these threads except to offer my paltry 2 cents. for being such a tech and forward thinking community there's almost this knee jerk reaction against ANYTHING llm (which i suppose i understand). a lot of us are missing the forest for the trees here.

Re: Study mode

#604

Post by johnnyanmac »

danny_codes wrote: post #418
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

Consider the adoption of conventional technology in the classroom. The US has spent billions on new hardware and software for education, and yet there has been no improvement in learning outcomes. This is where the skepticism arises. Before we spend another $100 billion on something that ended up being worthless, we should first prove that it’s actually useful. So far, that hasn’t conclusively been demonstrated.

billions on tech but not on making sure teachers can pay rent. Even the prestige or mission oriented structure of teaching has been weathered over the decades as we decided to shame teachers as government funded babysitters instead of the instructors of our future generations.

Truly a mystery why America is falling behind.

Re: Study mode

#605

Post by johnnyanmac »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #478
breve wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to say "I don't know" is not a high bar. I would say it's a basic requirement of a system that is not magic.

Based on your example, basically any answer would be "I don't know 100%". You could ask me as a human basically any question, and I'd have answers for most things I have experience with. But if you held a gun to head and said "are you sure???" I'd obviously answer "well damn, no I'm not THAT sure".

It'd at least be an honest one that recognizes that we shouldn't be trusting the tech wholesale yet.

>But if you held a gun to head and said "are you sure???" I'd obviously answer "well damn, no I'm not THAT sure".

okay, who's holding a gun to Sam Altman's head?

Re: Study mode

#606

Post by johnnyanmac »

chrsw wrote: post #471
breve wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to say "I don't know" is not a high bar. I would say it's a basic requirement of a system that is not magic.

> The ability to say "I don't know" is not a high bar. For you and I, it's not. But for these LLMs, maybe it's not that easy? They get their inputs, crunch their numbers, and come out with a confidence score. If they come up with an answer they're 99% confident in, by some stochastic stumbling through their weights, what are they supposed to do? I agree it's a problem that these systems are more likely to give poor,…

>If they come up with an answer they're 99% confident in, by some stochastic stumbling through their weights, what are they supposed to do?

As much as Fi, from The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword was mocked for this, this is the exact behavior a machine should do (not that Fi is a machine, but she operated as such).

Give a confidence score the way we do in statistics, make sure to offer sources, and be ready to push back on more objective answers. accomplish those and I'd be way more comfortable using them as a tool.

>hat's part of the risk of using these systems and that's why you need to be careful how you use them.

Adn we know in 2025 how careful the general user is of consuming bias and propaganda, right?

Re: Study mode

#607

Post by SwtCyber »

I'd love to see more transparency on how they’re measuring whether it's actually helping students learn better, not just feel like they are.

Re: Study mode

#608

Post by wiseowise »

teiferer wrote: post #581
jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

> Learning something online 5 years ago often involved trawling incorrect, outdated or hostile content and attempting to piece together mental models without the chance to receive immediate feedback on intuition or ask follow up questions. That trained and sharpened invaluable skills involving critical thinking and grit.

It didn’t. Only frustrated and slowed down students.

Re: Study mode

#609

Post by skinkestek »

jacobedawson wrote: post #379

An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment. Adding in a mode that doesn't just dump an answer but works to take you through the material step-by-step is magical. A tireless, capable, well-versed assistant on call 24/7 is an autodidact's dream. I'm puzzled (but not surprised) by the standard HN resistance & skepticism. Learning something online 5…

> An underrated quality of LLMs as study partner is that you can ask "stupid" questions without fear of embarrassment.

Even more important for me, as someone who did ask questions but less and less over time, is this: with GPTs I no longer have to the see passive-aggressive banner saying

> This question exists for historical reasons, not because it’s a good question."

all the time on other peoples questions, and typically on the best questions with the most useful answers there were.

As much as I have mixed feelings about where AI is heading, I’ll say this: I’m genuinely relieved I don’t need to rely on Stack Overflow anymore.

It is also deeply ironic how stackoverflow alienated a lot of users in the name of inclusion (the Monica case) but all the time they themselves were the ones who really made people like me uncomfortable.

Re: Study mode

#610

Post by ksynwa »

mkagenius wrote: post #240
simonw wrote: post #198

I think I got the system prompt out for this (I tried a few different approaches and they produced the same output): https://gist.github.com/simonw/33d5fb67d6b8e1b1e2f6921ab0ccb... Representative snippet: > DO NOT GIVE ANSWERS OR DO HOMEWORK FOR THE USER. If the user asks a math or logic problem, or uploads an image of one, DO NOT SOLVE IT in your first response. Instead: *talk through* the problem with the user, one…

I wish each LLM provider would add "be short and not verbose" to their system prompts. I am a slow reader, it takes a toll on me to read through every non-important detail whenever I talk to an AI. The way they render everything so fast gives me an anxiety. Will also reduce the context rot a bit.

Yeah these chatbots are by default geared towards doing your work for you instead of filling the gaps in your knowledge (something they would be excellent at). I feel it must be symptomatic of the vision these vendors have for their products, one of fully autonomous replacements for workers rather than of tools to enhance the worker.
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