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Do not download the app, use the website

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Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#601

Post by bratwurst3000 »

akdev1l wrote: post #571
gargan wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the Mac way a good thing though? For example everything on Windows is moving to web apps where I feel they can load just as many trackers onto you eg https://www.theverge.com/news/710509/whatsapp-windows-app-we... Whereas on Mac, Meta are keeping their native app presumably because they can't be in the Mac app store with just a web wrapper But maybe I've just got the exact delusion youre talking about in that I…

Most apps on Mac are not on the App Store You download a DMG file or something, then you drag and drop some icon into your “applications” folder It is kind of dumb. I haven’t seen any graphical package manage interface to handle this.

new to mac and when i dis this the first time i was "wtf is this made for children"

but I understand more. Its more a folder oriented system. kind of

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#602

Post by [deleted] »

Tempat1 wrote: post #326
kristopolous wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "download app" notifications on reddit are like some kind of art project to maximimally annoy you. Probably the worst offender is facebook where they have what can only be called an intentionally broken mobile website - the idea of losing the person's name if you edit a comment, the page deciding to reload you back to the main page if you switch tabs to research something or the post box clearing out if you switc…

Reddit used to have a really excellent mobile experience at i.reddit.com. It was a minimalist fast-loading mobile-first formatted version of the website. Unfortunately they shut it down not too long ago.

[deleted]

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#603

Post by ant_li0n »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #476
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

Most people don't know how to use a computer well. Most people are just slightly above computer-illiterate. They were introduced to phones which have apps. Now in their minds that's how everything must be. Anything else induces fear into their minds. While technically competent people might go: "Oh neat, I don't even need to install an app, if I just put the website icon onto my home screen." Most users are like: "Oh…

You come off like a dick, but it's really true.

I saw a tweet where some Zoomer was roasting an "Elder Millenial" for switching devices from a mobile phone to a desktop when making a big purchase (airline tickets? I forget).

I didn't feel like wading into that argument (what's the point? like spitting in a campfire), but... yeah.

Some folks say that we are regressing wrt technological proficiency, but it's really just that more people use technology than they used to. Regression to the mean, maybe? Is that the right expression?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#604

Post by driverdan »

rplnt wrote: post #388
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

> People just really like apps! I would say people really hate websites on mobile. The browsers are horrible, the pages are slow and oftentimes broken in some way. You get all these popups everywhere, ads are much more intrusive. It's just bad experience, so of course people would prefer app for something they use. I avoid the browser on mobile as much as possible and I don't remember ever having a good time using it…

> You get all these popups everywhere, ads are much more intrusive.

I've literally never had that problem. Firefox Mobile + uBlock Origin eliminates ads.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#605

Post by llm_nerd »

ajross wrote: post #565
llm_nerd wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Um... bluetooth? USB? Sensors? Ah yes, the 0.001% of apps. That's clearly why PWAs have made zero inroads, even on Android where Google keeps tossing in poorly considered, completely non-standard APIs.

> Ah yes, the 0.001% of apps A small fraction of WEB PAGES , not "apps". Like half the apps installed on my phone have some behavior not purely connected to internet communication! You just don't think that's a problem and like installing apps from the store and using iOS as your only gateway to the world and think "browsers" are crufty and silly. But that's a taste issue not a technical one. "Because I don't persona…

>A small fraction of WEB PAGES, not "apps".

No, apps. The vast majority of my apps do not read from sensors or do anything directly with bluetooth. The vast majority. Another strawman, which is par for the course on this topic. There is always just one more "but wait...what if the PWA could do {X}, and that is why no one uses it, even for markets where {X} has utterly zero relevance!" canard, though.

>and think "browsers" are crufty and silly

*NOWHERE* did I say anything remotely of the sort. What a ridiculous reframing. This discussion is embarrassing. You have absolutely no idea of my history in this industry, but let's say that it makes your contention so outrageously wrong that you should feel embarrassed. But you won't.

PWAs -- usually as a reflection of the way they are built -- are almost always garbage compared to comparable native apps. This has literally NOTHING to do with "web browsers being silly" (again, iOS users use web browsers doing web stuff far more than Android users do), however ridiculous so many have to strawman this.

>"Because I don't personally like it"

Amazing. There is close to negligible uptake of PWAs. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the world didn't make that choice because "I don't personally like it". Android has almost completely domination in many countries, and again their app ecosystem is overwhelmingly native apps. This constant laughably fictional rhetoric spouted on HN is just self-deluding pablum.

>Basically you're the person in 1998 arguing for Win32 apps everywhere and that the HTML/JS/Java platforms were inherently inferior.

Beyond ridiculous.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#606

Post by Aaargh20318 »

akdev1l wrote: post #572
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Web Apps need to become just Apps. Apps built with the free and open web need equal treatment and integration. Closed and heavily taxed proprietary ecosystems should not receive any preference. That basically already exists on the desktop in the form of Electron apps. Those apps are universally hated because of it. Web technology is not suitable for making applications. It was designed to format text documents and…

> Those apps are universally hated because of it. Maybe they are hated by nerds on reddit and hackernews. I gather most people are just using the apps and have no idea how they’re built.

> I gather most people are just using the apps and have no idea how they’re built.

They may have no idea how they are built, but they do notice how janky and out of place they are. Take for example Microsoft Teams, have you ever met anyone who actually likes that app? It's insane that a simple chat app uses well over a gigabyte of RAM.

It's absurd that one of the biggest software companies in the world can't seem to produce a sleek, native app. It's purely a cost saving measure. They decided mediocrity is good enough for them and they get away with it because the people making the purchase decisions are not the people who have to use it daily.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#607

Post by TingPing »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #601
akdev1l wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most apps on Mac are not on the App Store You download a DMG file or something, then you drag and drop some icon into your “applications” folder It is kind of dumb. I haven’t seen any graphical package manage interface to handle this.

new to mac and when i dis this the first time i was "wtf is this made for children" but I understand more. Its more a folder oriented system. kind of

Its fine, it just has the quirk that sharing folders sucks and you have to put it in a container so it’s a single file.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#608

Post by tortilla »

happyopossum wrote: post #577
Einenlum wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when ChatGPT was released. I talked about it to a friend who is not technical. She said "oh wow, I really need to try it". She later said "I couldn't find the app in my AppStore". I kept saying they had a website and why would you need an app. She couldn't understand what I was saying. Seems like indeed the general public really likes apps and even thinks you can't do so many things in the browser.

> She couldn't understand what I was saying I don’t buy this for one second. The web is well known, and well understood - I’ve never run into anyone, in any age group, with any level of education, who wouldn’t understand what a website is. Either you’re being overly dramatic and exaggerating here, or you had a very difficult time pronouncing the words you were intending to say.

No, a lot of non-technical people don't know the difference.

My friend was trying to explain an app to me. How everyone at his work was amazed at how well it worked compared to their Salesforce solution that they were forced to use.

The app? A website. Not even a web application. It was just a brochure type web catalog that allowed them to show their customer the brands and products they sold.

Other's I've told about ChatGPT or Claude, have trouble finding it. They go into the App Store and search for the apps. They are inundated non-official versions. All with similar titles. Some stop, some install the wrong versions.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#609

Post by jasonjayr »

grues-dinner wrote: post #512
jasonjayr wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 3rd party Reddit apps made an effort to be more 'native', and actually used native UI elements to make rendering and interactions faster than the web page could. WAAAAAY too often the 1st party native app is exactly what the other poster said: a browser context with access to some local native API's in order to hoover more data about the user. It is rare that a first-party app actually has some effort put into it…

> make rendering and interactions faster than the web page could. McMaster-Carr begs to differ. Hell even old.reddit is pretty snappy (but deliberately shittily rendered on mobile). Websites can be fast if you don't stuff them with bullshit or degrade then on purpose to drive traffic to the app.

Right -- their website is a great example of a great web app. Their web site is brilliantly organized. But their revenue comes from sales of their products, not harvesting user data, so they have little need to add all the extra jank.

But if they had a native app (do they?) I imagine they would have the wherewithal to build the app natively, with the same stellar navigation of their website, and maybe some native-only features? Imagine if you could use the 3d sensor + camera of an iPhone, and point it at an assembly, and the app would identify the parts it could, and you could order with one click, or integrate with a local ERP or other systems...

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#610

Post by thfuran »

charcircuit wrote: post #308
thfuran wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of these are a sign a product has no value. You described the majority of those as being about the perception of value rather than value. >No one would advertise with Facebook if there was no value from purchasing ad space. The billions of dollars people spend is evidence there is value there for advertisers No one is disputing that the advertisers are getting value. The pursuit of advertiser value at the expe…

>You described the majority of those as being about the perception of value rather than value. Which is why they weren't useful to bring up.

No, the difference between value and perceived value was pretty much their point.
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