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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#601
post #522
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

AFAIK some automakers also cut down on the number of sensors by doing stuff like reading the already implemented sensor(s) for the ABS to provide the tire pressure warning function.

That becomes circular logic because ABS is also required by law

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations will make cars unaffordable which is exactly what they are pushing for

Yeah! Let's get rid of requirements for headlights and seatbelts, and brake lights, too. Why do we need all that? /s

Let’s use regulation for actual safety issues, and not to increase the barrier of entry for foreign vehicles. It drives up the cost of all vehicles.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just competition doing its job. The rate of profit, just like every other price, is supposed to fall to the minimum sustsinable level in capitalism.

But it’s well below the minimum sustainable level due to Chinese government subsidies.

And that's a bad thing?

A country's government sees an opportunity to invest into a promising new technology that could reap tremendous economic benefits. Such benefits include new jobs, new income, the ability to increase social/political capital worldwide, and help usher in a world that is that much less reliant on oil.

That's what countries in the first world are supposed to do.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#604

Completely unmentioned: Chinese EVs are $10k worldwide except USA. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-sta...

First of all, that statement is entirely untrue. These cars aren‘t 10k in most (all?) of the EU for example. As far as I know, these 10k cars are really only a thing in china and some SEA markets (I am not sure if these cars are really that cheap adjusted to purchasing power in these markets). Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are ex…

American expat living in Thailand reporting in. I think the cheapest car in Thailand is the 2025 Suzuki Celerio which is a 5 seater hatchback. At the current exchange rate it's $9,800 brand new. Of course this figure is not adjusted for purchasing power (so what?). We have BYDs here and I haven't really looked at them but pretty sure a few are under $25K.

If Americans can't get a new car for under $25,000 but Southeast Asia can get them for under $10K, something is wrong. If the entry level car is 2.5x more expensive in America it means Americans are getting fleeced. I haven't lived in America for a long time and I feel like this makes it very obvious to me when the BS machine over there is in full spew. Free markets drive consumer prices down to the cost of production.

I don't know the auto industry in detail but it is an extensively documented fact that America has few free markets left, and they've been replaced by cartels - each industry has a couple of crooks at the top who rotate between private and public jobs. On the public side they come up with excuses to not enforce the anti-trust laws that are on the books, and they add regulations that raise the cost of business. On the private side they come up with ways to improve margins which usually involve fucking consumers.

Let's not make excuses for the criminals. America needs free markets and cheaper cars. Elite lawlessness is the cause of increased costs in America.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#605
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any recommendation how to start learning repairing a car? I have absolutely zero experience. A friend of mine said just learn to change a tyre first and I have been procrastinating since.

Buy POS 30yo car and just start getting it in shape to be daily drivable. You can typically screw things up three times over before it'd be cheaper to pay someone. All you really need is the internet. China tools via Amazon are "fine".

Not disagreeing, just elaborating, about “fine” Chinese Amazon tools.

I needed safety wire pliers to assemble some brake rotors. The metal in the ones I got on Amazon was softer than the metal wire they came with such that the cutting edges got little wire-sized dents in them and increasingly useless the farther I got along in the job.

Returned those afterward. Junk.

But there’s other stuff I’ve gotten from RANDOMLETTERS Amazon that’s actually holding up “ok.”

Also, Harbor Freight is a better source of ok/fine tools where you don’t need quotes around those words.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#606
post #552
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

They are required by law in no small part because car manufacturers want it to be. Compliance is a moat.

Rearview cameras are effective: https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/bibliography/ref/2130

I agree with having simpler SKUs, but rearview camera is not where to start

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#608
post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

I think people are saying that you can't find a used car for cheap anymore more than anything.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#609

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated. The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand. e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what…

Yes, if they would make a basic car like in the past I would buy it. Everyone has to sell you too much, I want a simple car, I don't want either the stereo, I will add my own later (I can put it one that is better than the factory one for a cheaper price, but in a modern car replacing the stereo is almost impossible). There are a ton of useless sensors, the sensor that tells you if you have a flat tire (I think I can…

I do a lot of work on my own vehicles. I think a lot of the responses are from people who do not.

Paying for vehicle repair labor is basically a tax. They're making it harder and harder to fix your own car. I spent the afternoon yesterday trying to find headlight assemblies that didn't need to be coded to work correctly. Headlights.

All the outrage about right-to-repair around here, and nobody realizes the frog is almost boiled around repairing cars.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations will make cars unaffordable which is exactly what they are pushing for

Tire sensors and backup cameras are dirt cheap though. Maybe lane warning and collision avoidance are a bit more but they’re both 10+ year old technology, they can’t cost that much. Also all of these things are good. Redoing the steering wheel or using 22” wheels or adding heating for each individual ass cheek… that I don’t need, and it adds to the cost.

Anything that takes control away from me I am not interested in. I am both legally and financially liable for anything the car does. I am also not trusting my life to some poorly maintained software written by someone in another country.
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