Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

news.ycombinator.com

601–610 of 957 posts

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#601
post #110

Can someone steelman the positives for me? I don't see how it's anything but pure regulatory capture favoring established tech firms. A small company ramping up revenue simply can't handle this amortization while a large, established company can. That being said, I do think there's a little sloppiness in what is categorized as "R&D" in the software development. Is code maintenance R&D? Bug fixes? Performance improvem…

Generally the US requires valuable assets to be depreciated and amortized over their useful life. This is arguably a fair way to tax businesses with fewer downsides than many alternatives. Consider a different situation, a business pays employees to build a residential home for $275k total, the land is worth zero in this simple example. Currently they can deduct $10k a year for 27.5 years to depreciate the home, even…

I think you are confusing the use case. If a business pays employees to build a residential home for $275k and the land cost $0, they don’t deduct anything. Assume they sell the home for $350k. They then have a cost of sale of $275k so they make a profit of $35k0 - 275k = $75k. They then pay tax on the $75 in the year the home was sold.

Section 174 relates to Research and Development expenses. The idea originally was they firms were spending a lot of money to develop a product that might have long useful life, but the expenses were all hitting the operating expense in the current year. This is great for cash tax purposes, but bad for metrics like operating income and net income which impact many firms valuations. Arguably it also misrepresents the firm’s business model. A fundamental idea is that costs should be reflected consistently with the period that revenue is earned. With R&D, the revenue is expected to be earned over many years but the costs are incurred upfront.

The better example is not a residential home, but an apartment building. The builder spends $300M to build the apartments then leases them for the next 30 years. In that example, the $300M is depreciated over 30 years so the costs track with the expenses.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#603
ive got a different thought in response to this:

is all this ammortization stuff bumpkiss? not just for sorftware developmeent, but everything else that's required to be ammortized?

software has been the growth area of actually making stuff for the past 20 years in the US. is it ammortization rules that have held back other investment?

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#604
post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just add a row to spreadsheet at the end of the month. 30% maintenance, 70% development or whatever

My last company required timesheets to be submitted daily.

This is common in Canada for companies claiming SR&ED credits: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/scientific-...

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#605

I've heard that many of the big tech layoffs where actually just moved / converting them to contracting groups, so they lose the direct head count but kept the developer via the intermediary. Have others heard this too and could this have been a way to label contractors differently so they don't fall under this tax code?

Which entity typically owns a software asset created by contracted developers?

Some firms use proprietary software to run their business. The development costs of that development may be eligible to be capitalized under Section 174. The idea is to make it similar to if they simply bought software off the shelf which they would be allowed to capitalize.

Before someone mentions Excel, most firms have a threshold the expense has to clear before it is considered for capitalization. Excel is under most firm’s threshold.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#606
post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1M eng salaries, 5m revenue, 4M other costs. Today I am cash flow neutral at 5m revenue, but with this I'm paying taxes on 800k "profits", which don't exist anywhere but on paper. But I have to pay the taxes in real dollars.

This is going to sound silly but you paid 800k in profits, but now have 4 years of banked costs you can use to _reduce_ your profit margin. So you pay taxes on 800k profits, but then each subsequent year you reduce you profit by 200k, even though you don't have 200k leaving the door. If 1M eng salaries was your stable state, then after several years you're... going to have 1M in costs to subtract from your profit! Th…

A few large companies with big cash stockpiles and profit can eat this the first couple years, not so for startups and companies with thin margins.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#607

I wonder if something like this could also help the hardware industry, thus encouraging more manufacturing in the US.

This has already been done in the hardware space for decades. Periodically the government will want to incentivize the purchase of capital equipment, including computer hardware, and will offer accelerated depreciation. Fully expensing things in the current year is just the most accelerated the IRS can make the depreciation.

Note, by accelerating the depreciation, they are reducing taxes in the current year(s) while the program is in place (always have a limited period) but increasing them when the program expires.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#608

Are there any sources for the argument why this should apply to software and not to, say, farm equipment? The cash flow and taxation story seems to be the same.

There is an analogous set of rules for things like farm equipment. It is called accelerated depreciation and the government has used it for decades to increase incentives for purchasing capital equipment.

Because software development did not already fit in the definition of a capitalizable expense, the lawmakers modified the research and development rules to allow it.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#609
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is, that there is some asset generated by the devs (software, etc.). Same as a machine that you buy and that generates revenue over time (and loses value over time). So the work result (the software) of a dev generates revenue over time and the costs are spread over time as well.

I guess I'm preaching to the choir here, but a machine has re-sale value outside of what it produces, which is what actually makes it a "asset". This argument could be applied to any knowledge worker that makes a spreadsheet since you can sell the spreadsheet.

You are actually pointing out the difference between physical assets and intangible assets. Mailing lists are the classic example of an intangible asset. Trademarks as well. For clarity, the argument is that a firm could sell the software developed by engineers if it wanted to

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am not sure how this can be a serious question right now, in 2025. it was a serious question. I did know that the republicans are in the majority in both the lower and upper houses, after the recent US election. but was not sure if that was the only factor involved. I am not from the US. just an interested observer. hence my question.

the two branches are theoretically independent. what is happening right now is that, depending in your POV: 1) the Republican majority in both the house and senate are entirely on board with all of the Trump administration's actions, and thus have no reason to pass legislation or act in any way separately from the executive branch. 2) the Republican majority in both the house and senate are craven and terrified of th…

wow. shit.

thanks for the reply.

Post reply on HN