Changes since congestion pricing started in New York • Hacker News Board

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#601

Post by tiltowait » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #589

ben7799 wrote: post #566

Car speed in the zone.. that graph is really telling, showing that in NYC cars never really travel faster than even the slowest bicyclist, and slower than a modest runner. That alone tells you this is the right path. All that infrastructure and work for cars to not actually allow anyone to travel fast. 9mph is very very slow even for the weakest/most timid cyclist.

Cars are slow but you're less likely to get mugged (unlike pedestrians) or hit by cars (unlike cyclists). Also, bikes get stolen. These things happen rarely, but in the long run, the risk isn't negligible. I avoid cars as much as I can and commute by bike in my European city. I used to live in NYC: I've been mugged there, and I've seen cyclists injured by cars. I don't want to cycle there and I do take cabs in the ev…

Cars also let you carry stuff over distances that would be awkward/uncomfortable/impossible walking or cycling. They’re also more comfortable, particularly in inclement weather.

I’d absolutely love if I could get away with having no car. I can’t. My life would be markedly, instantly, and demonstrably worse. I feel like a lot of people in the “no cars” camp neglect these issues.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#602

Post by tootie » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:56 PM UTC

misja111 wrote: post #486

philipallstar wrote: post #9

The increased speeds are excellent for those who can afford the toll. This is a universal benefit of toll roads for those people.

Yet, the article states > Public Opinion: Not great (but improving) So most people aren't happy (yet). Why is that?

It's change. And it's a tax. Neither of which are easy sells.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#603

Post by mostdefinite1 » Thu, May 15, 2025, 5:58 PM UTC

tlogan wrote: post #579

TingPing wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole comment is insane but I’ll just say the last administration helped fund transit, but is of course being rolled back by the new one. https://www.transit.dot.gov/about/news/biden-harris-administ... https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-ad...

So what should I do? How can I blame Trump for what is happening with public transport in SF and CA? Both CA and SF are 100% democrat for last 20 years.

Wasn't Musk's whole hyperloop project determined to be just a way to sabotage the SF-LA high-speed rail?

California's so-called Democrats are in love with the idea that private industry (i.e., Silicon Valley) will swoop in and do the government's work for them. And they'll sideline any government project if they think someone else might shoulder the burden. LA almost elected a real estate billionaire as mayor whose solution to homelessness was to build a bunch of "housing" out in the middle of the desert.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#604

Post by tootie » Thu, May 15, 2025, 6:01 PM UTC

blindriver wrote: post #567

What about crime on the subway, did congestion pricing affect that since more people will take the subway?

Crime is down, but it's been trending down since the pandemic ended. In fact, the crime rate on the subway was never very high. The few high profile cases made national news, but given the millions of daily ride, the actual odds of being victimized have always been low. Very few people who live here were ever very concerned. It's routine for kids to ride the subway alone to attend middle or high school in NYC.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#605

Post by david-gpu » Thu, May 15, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

KingMob wrote: post #293

david-gpu wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, EVs are nearly as loud as IC, as the majority of the noise at typical stroad speeds comes from the tires, not the engine.

Isn't that mostly applicable to highway speeds? Does tire noise have much of an effect at city speeds?

Yes, it is very noticeable at city speeds. Source: my hears every day I go out.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#606

Post by kazinator » Thu, May 15, 2025, 6:02 PM UTC

> Evidence has mounted that the program so far is achieving its two main goals — reducing congestion

It's reducing congestion by removing the people who don't want to pay $9 to drive to town.

Paying to be there: what a lovely concept! It works wonders for reducing density, too. Fewer people live in a desirable area, and they are richer and more pleasant, what are the downsides?

Maybe it should not be linked to affordability; it should be a lottery, for fairness.

For instance, if your license plate ends with certain numbers or letters (changing daily, and known months in advance for any given day), you don't get to drive into town.

Knowing well in advance the days when your car is admissible into the city allows you to plan. E.g. reschedule certain appointments so they occur on an allowed day, or else make alternative transportation plans.

Imperfections in lottery systems:

- Not fair toward people who often have to drive to town for whatever reason: they drive everyday or many days out of the week or month. Still translates to an extra cost, like driving to some parking lot outside of the city core, paying for parking there, and then paying for transit into the city. This could be people who are not well off: they work some job in the city that is not well paid, and have to live far away. In America "have car" != "affluent".

- Unfair advantage enjoyed by people who own multiple vehicles; we have not entirely eliminated pay-to-drive-here.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#607

Post by Chris2048 » Thu, May 15, 2025, 6:03 PM UTC

dahart wrote: post #550

Chris2048 wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairly recently: https://nypost.com/2025/04/15/us-news/cause-of-death-still-a... A man died while riding the train, one person robbed the corpse, then another had sex with it..

I heard about that one too, very unique and weird for sure! But we could go through the stories of each of the few hundred fatalities that happened on public transit last year, and it wouldn’t even be a blip compared to the tens of thousands of people killed in gruesome accidents in cars. Incidentally I still remember the description of Paul Walker’s death for kinda the same reason that subway chainsaws and necrophil…

Except that wasn't a fatality. How often do people get robbed while driving in the highway.

For that matter, how many who came to harm on the highway were speeding vs random subway assaults.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#608

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 15, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #599

ben7799 wrote: post #566

Car speed in the zone.. that graph is really telling, showing that in NYC cars never really travel faster than even the slowest bicyclist, and slower than a modest runner. That alone tells you this is the right path. All that infrastructure and work for cars to not actually allow anyone to travel fast. 9mph is very very slow even for the weakest/most timid cyclist.

I support this policy and was a bike commuter for several years, but just to play devil's advocate: Speed is not the only reason people prefer a car over walking and biking. * Some people have mobility issues and can't bike or walk but can drive. * Cars give you environment isolation when it's freezing, sweltering, or pouring rain. * Cars isolate you from other people, which can be important especially for groups tha…

[deleted]

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#609

Post by tootie » Thu, May 15, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #127

In my opinion, a democratic way to make such changes would be: 1) make a dedicated lane for public transport on every street so that traffic jams do not affect it 2) let car owners vote if they want to pay for entering the city or would rather spend some more time in traffic jams but save the money

The democratic way is we let our elected officials pass laws and that's what happened. You're ignoring the massive externalities that car owners impose on non-drivers. You're also (very Americanly) assuming car owners have special rights of any kind. We could vote to ban driving and parking and just turn all the paved roads into greenspaces. There's no Constitutional right to drive wherever you want.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#610

Post by gpm » Thu, May 15, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #599

ben7799 wrote: post #566

Car speed in the zone.. that graph is really telling, showing that in NYC cars never really travel faster than even the slowest bicyclist, and slower than a modest runner. That alone tells you this is the right path. All that infrastructure and work for cars to not actually allow anyone to travel fast. 9mph is very very slow even for the weakest/most timid cyclist.

I support this policy and was a bike commuter for several years, but just to play devil's advocate: Speed is not the only reason people prefer a car over walking and biking. * Some people have mobility issues and can't bike or walk but can drive. * Cars give you environment isolation when it's freezing, sweltering, or pouring rain. * Cars isolate you from other people, which can be important especially for groups tha…

> * You are much safer being in a car when hit by another car than when not being in a car. This is something a lot of bike commute advocates sweep under the rug. They talk about how biking is overall safe, but then you ask them if they've ever had an accident and so many have been hit by cars and broken bones.

> (The reason I'm not a bike commuter right now is because I slipped in a puddle biking to work and destroyed my ankle. Non-fatal accident statistics for cycle are actually pretty scary when you dig into them. People always point out that overall mortality statistics are better for cyclists, but you can still have a really fucking bad time without dying.)

While true that injuries exist, halving your chance of early death is a pretty remarkable statistic, and would make me say that you are (if you are a statistically average person) much safer bike commuting than commuting by car: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2024/12/18/18-year-...