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Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

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Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#601

Post by surgical_fire »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #570
surgical_fire wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to be Switzerland. Ally with no one, trade with everyone. Imposing tariffs and threatening annexation of former allies is not a great start. But you will get a lot more of the "anti-americanism" you were crying about some comments ago. Better get used to it, it has merely started.

>Imposing tariffs and threatening annexation of former allies is not a great start. I'm against annexation of Greenland as I stated elsewhere: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43460070 The US, as a sovereign country, has just as much right to levy taxes on imports as any other country.

> I'm against annexation of Greenland

You, personally, being against it means little, when your president openly threatens it.

> The US, as a sovereign country, has just as much right to levy taxes on imports

And other countries, in their own sovereignty, have just as much right to retaliate with tarriffs of their own, and do trade deals amongst themselves.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#602

Post by ernirulez »

Contrary to some of opinions here where the easiest thing is to criticize Trump and his administration, I will give a different point of view: Many of us European citizens love the Trump administration and we envy Americans for the big step you've given against the globalist tyranny. The EU is totally controlled by them and we are literally living in a dictatorship (in Spain with the dictator Pedro Sánchez is one of the worst). The EU is implementing laws for full control of its citizens, censoring all the contrary opinions. Freedom is almost non-existent anymore. And the worst part is the forced Islamization of Europe they're creating. This with the sole purpose of riding us of our culture and identity. People without identity are people with nothing to fight for, people easily enslaved. You Americans wake up! Trump is the best thing that's ever happened to you.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#603

Post by spopejoy »

FeloniousHam wrote: post #500
snickerbockers wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, contrary to popular belief we don't all work for lockheed martin so i really couldn't care less about the military-industrial complex losing business. I really don't see that as a bad thing; it's pretty obvious at this point that a significant amount of US sabre-rattling is a result of the incestuous relationship between politicians, high-ranking military officers and defense contractors. I suppose this could ha…

> But more to the point, you seem to be under the impression that Americans benefit on a personal level from our country's global empire. We really don't. I am routinely puzzled at the simple ignorance of U.S. citizens decrying the benefits of being the global hegemon: - global reserve currency: lower borrowing rates, allows us to set economic norms - massive military and power projections: maintains stability and pr…

It's fair to decry US citizens' ignorance of the true extent of US dominance and how it affects the home front ... BUT combined with 40 years of increasing neoliberal austerity, it's not correct to equate the effects with a better way of life.

Instead I would say that US corporate interests and the wealthy undoubtedly benefit from US hegemony, and there is a more or less relentless effort to deny those benefits to the poor and middle class. The cost of living, especially rent or mortgage servicing, has drastically outpaced wage increases. Health care is in terrible shape with medical bankruptcy increasingly common, and outcomes way worse.

The MI complex is again something that Americans don't credit enough for economic stimulation, but if anything it just shows that a command economy works way better than neoliberal capitalists would have us believe.

Even "peace" is poorly distributed internally. A "volunteer army" in effect is one where those with means don't have to risk their lives supporting the latest US adventure.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#604

Post by Ragnarork »

mike_hearn wrote: post #590
defrost wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment above was written in response to an earlier version of the comment above it. That original version was phrased as to blame farmers for the plight of Brexit, as if a small group who voted more or less in line with with the nation made any kind of difference. Did farmers have it far worse after Brexit than the average Brit? My understanding is the nation as a whole suffered, with the exception of well off Br…

Your understanding is incorrect, but understandable if you read the wrong sources. There was so far no measurable negative impact of Brexit. Go look at graphs of trade balances, economic performance, etc. You can't see Brexit in them. The only metric I can think of that was impacted was currency value on the day of the vote, but that dump was driven by predictions of economic problems that never happened so arguably…

> There was so far no measurable negative impact of Brexit

Uh... Disagree.

> On January 11, 2024, the London Mayor's Office released the "Mayor highlights Brexit damage to London economy". The release cites the independent report by Cambridge Econometrics that London has almost 300,000 fewer jobs, and nationwide two million fewer jobs as a direct consequence of Brexit. Brexit is recognized as a key contributor to the 2023 cost-of-living crisis with the average citizen being nearly £2,000 worse off, and the average Londoner nearly £3,400 worse off, in 2023 as a result of Brexit. In addition, UK real Gross Value Added was approximately £140bn less in 2023 than it would have been had the UK remained in the Single Market.[0]

The whole page paints a picture which is far from "no measurable negative impact". While it's contrasted with some areas suffering and others benefiting, it's hard to have an overall picture that looks either good or bad, but it's far from being overly positive. And this is just on the economic topic, there's another whole hoist of topics which have negative outlooks such as security, politics (i.e. with the Ireland controversy and how difficult this situation is), etc.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_effects_of_Brexit#Imm...

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#605

Post by illiac786 »

huijzer wrote: post #532
isoprophlex wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recognize this attitude at all. But I'm no elite anywhere. Thinking about it, it's not so weird? We beat the nazis together, we've generally enjoyed world peace, freedom, and the joys of neocolonialism. Things were sailing along just fine. Now things are all weird and fucked up and we have to worry about fucking russia, defense spending in general, the fate of greenland, cloud computing and all that shit? Put…

> We beat the nazis together If you by "we" mean Britain, the United States, and Russia. And by "we" mean the people living 2 generations earlier, then I agree with your statement. As a side note, people who were 18 in 1940, would be 103 today. So most people who fought in the second world war have unfortunately passed away. I personally would never say "We beat the nazis together". The only thing I did was benefit f…

This comment is either bad taste trolling or simply insulting to anyone outside these theee countries that gave their lives to fight sgainst nazis… in Germany too there were people fighting the nazis, just as an example.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#606

Post by spiderfarmer »

elric wrote: post #597
spiderfarmer wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally don’t know anyone who thinks your President is smart. He never said anything that’s insightful and worth discussing. The press in your country is worthless for taking anything he says seriously. They’re either too afraid or too partisan to do their job on a level that’s acceptable in other western countries. It’s very clear he’s a puppet that is being used to execute the plans of the Heritage Foundation.…

Not my president and not my country. I find it hard to imagine that Trump is as stupid as his public image would suggest.

Don’t imagine. Just look at the evidence. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#607

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

naijaboiler wrote: post #598
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to project power globally. I don't want to control world trade. I don't want to have bases everywhere. I don't want to influence everywhere. I'm tired of this empire stuff. We aren't good at being an empire. We suck at it. I want to be a normal country, thanks. I'm tired of foreigners obsessively following our politics, offering their commentary, and resenting us no matter what we do. I want to be normal…

Be careful what you wish for. If US exits that role, it doesn't make that role disappear. Something else will step into it. And we will all have to live in that world. Good luck to us all.

A unipolar world is not inevitable. We could have a multipolar world with various regional power blocs. If that leads to less war, it's a good thing.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#608

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

tossandthrow wrote: post #580
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>English is not my first language Try using Google Translate or a European equivalent? You can write in your native language and translate into English. Using a translator could help you understand my points better, as well. >You seem completely oblivious to the fact that more than half listed stock globally is US - and that this is a marketplace. Ie. not only US capital. Yes, I'm aware that US stocks are overvalued.…

Is think there is plenty of evidence in both mine and other commenter's on why you comments are being downnvoted (which I can not do, as you answer to my comments). You way of debating is defensive and dismissive. So that is a hard stop from me here

You said to me: "cry me a river" and "you can develop some humility" and you're accusing me of being dismissive? I was more polite to you than you were to me. You were rude to me before I said anything even slightly mean to you. You repeatedly insulted me while I spoke respectfully to you.

I'm getting downvoted because Europeans have taken America for granted. They struggle with a relationship based on mutual respect and fairness.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#609

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

modo_mario wrote: post #588
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are your view of it on the comments of people online? Yes, I'm noting that uniquely among US allies, the internet is full of Europeans expressing anti-Americanism. And this has reduced American enthusiasm for the transatlantic alliance. There's no sense in trying to please someone who complains about you no matter what you do. I don't think it is just online, but the internet made it very clear to the US how Europea…

I could argue the very same about americans towards Europe. With Europe aiding the US in tradewars against japan, etc. actual wars in iraq, afghanistan, dealing with the fallout of that, etc Going against it's own foreign policy desires to appease the whims of [insert new administration] like a good set of vasals. But basing your foreign policy on internet commenters is so deeply incredibly inane. And get this. If yo…

>I could argue the very same about americans towards Europe. With Europe aiding the US in tradewars against japan, etc. actual wars in iraq, afghanistan, dealing with the fallout of that, etc Going against it's own foreign policy desires to appease the whims of [insert new administration] like a good set of vasals.

If you were such good vassals, why didn't you increase defense spending back when Bush and Obama requested that?

>But basing your foreign policy on internet commenters is so deeply incredibly inane.

I don't see other Europeans arguing against the internet commenters we are talking about. I think these comments are rather representative of European opinion, actually. In any case, I think if Europe wants to repair the relationship, it would be good to know that internet discourse is contributing a lot to the current situation. European users were in the habit of insulting the US long before American users started insulting Europe.

It's not just me who thinks this way. Here's a post I happened to see on Substack just the other day: https://terry264.substack.com/p/europe-youre-on-your-own

Do you think Trump administration officials like Pete Hegseth and JD Vance aren't reading this stuff? They're part of the younger generation that lives on social media. They read it, and they draw inferences about how their counterparts in Europe regard the transatlantic relationship.

>And get this. If you're hegemon you attract more slack no matter what you do. In many ways it involves being the geopolitical schoolyard bully and trump just makes that overtly clear. But it's not like protecting the dollars reserve currency status or any other such thing was something that didn't happen before and is now just being done to spite BRICS internet commenters.

I'm allowed to want to stop being hegemon. Maybe Europe can be hegemon next. You can see how much fun it is ;-)

>Like what's next? Want to go to war in the middle east again because they dislike you?

No, I don't want to go to war. I just don't believe in voluntarily supporting people who disdain me.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#610

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

Jensson wrote: post #585
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The US is plenty collectivist. Patriots who put country first and would die for it? That's collectivism. Someone who puts their family ahead of themselves? Also collectivism. Our discussion is on the topic of whether the US and Europe have common values. You can call this stuff "collectivism" if you want. But ironically I think it still indicates some deep US/Europe value differences. No one in the US believes peopl…

> No one in the US believes people should be obligated to serve in the military USA still has legal support for conscription, so that is wrong. Plenty of people feel exactly that.

The opinion polls I see show a large majority are against conscription.
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