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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#601

Post by maronato »

blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

> The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government.

This is not true, both because it’s not the only one[1], and because the constitution hasn’t prevented state censorship in the US[2-4].

> It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

How would it do that? The US constitution has no power over the UK.

[1]: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...

[2]: https://journals.ala.org/index.php/jifp/article/view/7208/10...

[3]: https://historycollection.com/10-situations-in-history-when-...

[4]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#602

Post by chongli »

foldr wrote: post #516
chongli wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about US citizens -- who are protected by the first amendment -- who have never set foot on UK soil being threatened with extradition to the UK! This is not justifiable.

You're talking about that, but it's unclear why, because it's not an example of someone being jailed for "disagreeing with the extreme left on social media". It's also a silly story. The dual criminality requirement, and various other considerations, make it virtually certain that no such extradition will occur. Those who fear that the UK is descending into a dystopian hell may be comforted to know that we have the w…

This line of reasoning -- "don't worry about these authoritarian power grabs, they're spearheaded by incompetent bozos" -- is faulty. Look at what's happening in the US right now!

I'm not in either country but I'm pretty outraged at the amount of this crap going on all over the western world. I'm also an Apple customer but I'm pretty upset that I have to rely on a big corporation to defend my right to privacy from foreign snoopers.

I also think it's counterproductive to try to play the "your government is worse than mine" game. We should all be pointing the fingers at all of these governments (and their authoritarian big tech allies) all over the world.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#603

Post by p0w3n3d »

izacus wrote: post #361
p0w3n3d wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most horrible part of the discussion we're making is that we're arguing that UK intelligence should be able to access only UK related data, and not that UK intelligence should not undermine privacy of people

What we're discussing here is whether a private company should obey laws of the country they operate in or not.

Fully agree. Imagine giving your data to company XYZ which promises you full encryption privacy. The company XYZ opens a subdivision in country CBA and all's okay unless CBA's law is changed to mandate all companies to give all their data. Now your data is lost to CBA's agents.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#605

Post by lotsofpulp »

autoexec wrote: post #517
madeofpalk wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems apparent to me that Apple leaked this information to US press in an attempt to get the UK to back off. Wouldn't Apple also try to subvert the attempt for US intelligence to get a backdoor? Or do we think Apple has less of a leg to stand on with US and would be more likely to roll over?

> Or do we think Apple has less of a leg to stand on with US and would be more likely to roll over? Apple has no leg to stand on at all. When the NSA comes to your door and demands access to everything you have you don't get to say no. There is no court you can appeal to, and they'll take whatever they want and order you to keep your mouth shut about it. They'll walk right into your headquarters and data centers, for…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d...

Obviously, Apple is going to comply with US federal law, given that their headquarters and employees are there, as well as their most profitable market. But when possible, they have shown themselves willing to fight against intrusion.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#606

Post by narag »

bluGill wrote: post #191
amelius wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm still missing how this could be enforced ? Basically by saying that if they don't comply, they can't do business in the UK.

There are lots of different ways to do business. UK is unlikely to be able to ban the iphone, and I doubt Apple has much business in the UK. As such they can lay off all workers in the UK "because of legal issues" and the workers feel the pain. They can still sell in the UK through third parties, and go to the EU if you need warranty work

The phone itself is only a piece. Apple sells multiple services, without them the phone is useless. If you can't access the appstore, the backups, etc. what good is an iPhone? Now, the UK can say that UK citizens' data can't travel outside of the UK without the UK government permission.

So it's still a problem. This seems like a looming PR battle.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#609

Post by jmull »

maronato wrote: post #601
blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

> The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. This is not true, both because it’s not the only one[1], and because the constitution hasn’t prevented state censorship in the US[2-4]. > It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens. How would it do that? The US constitution has no power over the UK. [1]: https://worldpopulationrevi…

> and because the constitution hasn’t prevented state censorship in the US[2-4]

That the constitution hasn't been upheld to a perfect standard all the time doesn't mean it doesn't codify freedoms. Also, precisely what the standard is isn't universally agreed upon and changes over time.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#610

Post by pmlnr »

selendym wrote: post #558
pmlnr wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the government is always exempt. Citizens shouldn't be allowed e2e, the government, that's ok.

The problem with this line of thinking is that the government is, of course, composed of... individual citizens.

I don't want them to be, they make themselves exempt.

It's bad. It's one of the causes that triggered the French Rebellion in 1793: one rule for them, one for us?

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