601–610 of 660 posts
Anyone remember the movie Pushing Tin with John Cusack and Billy Bob Thornton?
ATC here, I love that documentary :-) (Opinions are my own and not necessarily that of the FAA.) I have some wild stories, but unfortunately sharing them would dox me. The most inaccurate thing though is a transfer CPC (fully-certified controller at their previous facility) plugging in and being able to work without months of training in that area.
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Seems like bad news for minorities either way. Even if the lawsuit is dismissed, who would want to take on one of the most stressful jobs now knowing that if something goes wrong, millions of racist white people (including the president) will feel emboldened to blame you because of your skin color?
Yes, this is why anything like affirmative action was always a terrible idea. If relevant to who gets hired, you are literally discriminating against candidates on the basis of race. If irrelevant, you still have the "maybe they're just an affirmative action hire" pall hanging over those people. Nobody wins.
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There are plenty of jobs that you can't pay people enough money to want to do. The notion that if you just pay enough, people who are otherwise qualified will do anything, is amazingly reductive. It's a super US-centric view, and not surprisingly, it does not have an amazing history of working out (especially compared to other mechanisms). Given the people in question have good other options, why would they do this,…
> Plenty of folks take pay cuts to work remotely Pay cuts are not important; profit is! If I get paid 100 less, and spend 90 less because of no commuting, I'm gaining more than before.
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We do? Is there a reason you believe otherwise? There are nearly infinite studies in infinite fields on this, and despite claims here, the results are mixed at best. Certainly not the utopia consistently predicted. I'm sure someone will next just say it's not enough money, rather than bother to read any of the studies and whether they tried to account for this or not, or ... I'm going to ignore those comments, since…
We don't? I.e. if "10% more" doesn't seem to affect anything, we should maybe try "10x more" instead, and if that doesn't do anything, then conclude there's no more relevant labor left in the pool.
Why is money the only thing to do here? Why do you assume that is the driver, despite tons of data suggesting it's simply not the only driver?
Can you please, please, take like 10 minutes, and go read any of the 1000's of studies on this, and then make some reasoned argument that is more than just what you are doing now, which is:
A. I think money is the only thing that matters and refuse to present any evidence that it is.
B. I will also claim that we never try it, despite it actually having been tried.
C. When someone takes the time to show me that we do try it, i will simply, without any further evidence, claim we aren't offering enough.
This sort of discussion is just kind of silly to have.
You know what - great, you figured it out. The real problem is that we just aren't paying enough. That's the only problem. It's not that the qualifications are too high, or the job as is is too stressful, or anything else ....
You have, without any data, evidence, etc, figured out the one simple and true solution to a very complex problem that lots of people have spent lots of time trying to puzzle through.
You won hacker news! Congrats!
I actually hope they offer an infinite amount of money to ATC controllers, so we stop having this particular reductive variant pop up in discussions.
It's fine if you want to argue money matters, i even believe money does matter. I just don't think it's the only thing that matters, nor do i believe you can solve a complex problem like this by just taking a single variable in that complex system and pushing it to the extreme.
The most likely outcome seems to be you increase the rejection rate from 90% (which is what it is now) to 99.99999%, given how the process actually works right now.
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> They have an abundance of doctors and engineers They are usually paid several times less than people doing the same jobs in US.
But in other countries they dont need to pay so much for social system, insurance or healthcare, kindergarden and so on.. You can not always compare everything with money, when there is a lot around it.
Also taxes are generally much higher in these countries as well.
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> They have an abundance of doctors and engineers They are usually paid several times less than people doing the same jobs in US.
But their cost of life is also lower.
If you live in the Bay Area on the Peninsula, you'll be excited to know that the San Carlos airport and the FAA are in a pissing match over their air traffic controllers' pay, threatening to un-staff the control tower and leave that very busy airspace without tower control. The tower was set to go dark on Feb 1st[1] but it looks like there is now a temporary extension[2] keeping it staffed. Why these guys need to pla…
I'm confused. Why would the FAA be involved in locality pay or staffing a Contract Tower? I thought the whole point of Contract Towers was a private company staffed and paid them and the FAA merely dispersed the contractual amount to the company.
> The contract, however, did “not include locality pay to account for the high cost of living in the San Francisco Bay Area.” This resulted in the new offer to SQL’s air traffic controllers coming in “significantly lower” than their current compensation, according to the county.
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But in other countries they dont need to pay so much for social system, insurance or healthcare, kindergarden and so on.. You can not always compare everything with money, when there is a lot around it.
Would you rather spend 10% of 50k on healthcare or 15% of 100k? Also taxes are generally much higher in these countries as well.