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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

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Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#601

Post by Wowfunhappy »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #458
Spooky23 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where the dogma gets in the way of reality. Uber and cabs are the glue that fills the gaps that public transit has left unfilled for decades. The policy goal is to reduce congestion by discouraging personal vehicles in the zone and generate revenue for transportation as a whole, not to turn the city into a pedestrian park. The state took an approach that does that without nuking the city. Based on the fact th…

The congestion relief zone is probably one of the single densest transit zones on the planet. Rideshares and cabs are definitely useful for filling in the gaps in the boroughs, but you basically never need one in downtown Manhattan.

I live in Manhattan and I am decidedly anti-car. If I had my way private vehicles would be banned (with exceptions for e.g. people with relevant disabilities).

But cabs are important! This past august, I bought a new desktop PC (I did not want to build it myself for various reasons). I took it home in an Uber. Trying to walk to the subway with that giant box would have been virtually impossible.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#602

Post by Aspos »

CPLX wrote: post #589
nothrabannosir wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regret to say: I’ve lived here long enough to believe you genuinely mean it when you say that.

Is there a song called "Cleveland, Cleveland" that says if you can make it in Cleveland you can make it anywhere?

Oh, you mean the half-century old song New York New York by Frank Sinatra? One written for a musical depicting golden days of 1945? Nice one, I love it.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#603

Post by drawkward »

Lanolderen wrote: post #444
blehn wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one likes decent and cheap public transport? I find that hard to believe. It's basically the common denominator for the best modern cities. Motorcycles are definitely not the solution. Motorcycle usage in NYC has skyrocketed since 2020 and as a result the streets are far noisier, more chaotic, and more dangerous, especially for pedestrians and cyclists.

I mean it in the sense that I've literally never met a person who prefers travelling by public transport to a personal motorized vehicle outside of long trips. The usage I've seen of it is from people who are too much of a mess financially to afford a car/license or people who are terrified of driving. Incentives just don't fix the issue of having no control and being in a pod with a hundred people you don't know and…

I wish my city had better public transit, so I could drive less. Driving sucks!

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#604

Post by CPLX »

Aspos wrote: post #602
CPLX wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a song called "Cleveland, Cleveland" that says if you can make it in Cleveland you can make it anywhere?

Oh, you mean the half-century old song New York New York by Frank Sinatra? One written for a musical depicting golden days of 1945? Nice one, I love it.

You are correct that 80 years ago New York was also the greatest city in the history of world civilization. Quite a run isn't it?

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#605

Post by taatof »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #213
taatof wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we get around? To get downtown I have to take two busses and then bart (or two busses but it takes longer because there are a lot more stops). The kicker: I'm not even in a suburb, I live in SF! All we do in SF is make car driving worse, we almost never make public transit better. At least NYC has a plenty good enough train system. I end up WFH anyway, largely because it's annoying to get to an office downtown…

Here in San Francisco? On my insured Stromers, with my family, that I bought for less than the cost of a year of auto insurance. Door to door, I am everywhere I want to be in about 10m. My longest typical journey is 45m across Golden Gate Bridge from the Mission, which is faster than any car, simply because I park my bike at the door of my destinations. The better question is, have you ever seen a kid crying in the b…

Everyone I know who bikes in the city has been hit by a car at some point (see: my complaints about enforcement of traffic laws in this thread if you want my opinion on that).

I cringe when I see parents with their kids on the back of their bikes. Super dangerous.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#606

Post by Aspos »

CPLX wrote: post #604
Aspos wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, you mean the half-century old song New York New York by Frank Sinatra? One written for a musical depicting golden days of 1945? Nice one, I love it.

You are correct that 80 years ago New York was also the greatest city in the history of world civilization. Quite a run isn't it?

It surely was in 1945, no doubt about it.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#607

Post by cyberax »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #534
Xylakant wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transport is already largely cheaper than owning a car in many places, yet people drive. One good example to study is Germanys 50 EUR Ticket - now 58 EUR. It's a flat rate for all of Germanys public transport, including regional trains. You can get anywhere in Germany with this, and 58 EUR is not even remotely achievable as monthly cost for a car. Yet, while it has increased ridership, the majority of people d…

> Public transport is already largely cheaper than owning a car in many places, yet people drive. This is not a binary distinction. If you save $0.20 by taking public transport but it takes an hour longer, of course people drive. If you save $3 by taking public transport and it only costs you five minutes, that's different math. > You can get anywhere in Germany with this, and 58 EUR is not even remotely achievable a…

> Which it can, if you make it zero.

But you can't. Transit costs A LOT, its costs are just pushed onto car owners.

Instead, we should be honest and price it at the full 100% recovery rate, with 100% capital cost return. People will then start to think: "Should I continue paying that $20 per trip on a light rail, or should I get a car?"

"bUT poOR peoPLE@@!!!" - poor people also deserve comfort. I'm all for sponsoring car purchases for poor people and/or giving them money to buy transit passes at full cost.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#608

Post by matthest »

matthest wrote: post #7

Whether it's the government or corporations, big organizations are the problem. We need a small business revolution in this country. Side note: An economy made up of small businesses was Adam Smith's original vision (the godfather of capitalism). He also hated the idea of a corporation. What we have today really is very far from Adam Smith capitalism.

In retrospect, this was a knee-jerk reaction to a topic where I have no idea what I'm talking about. Please disregard my rambling.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#609

Post by JumpCrisscross »

steveBK123 wrote: post #410
snake42 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that its a recurring revenue scheme allows them to get bonds based on that income. I think I saw that they were planning to secure $18B for a project when it was $15 for the toll.

Yes though I'd imagine its harder to secure bonds now that Hochul has shown the governor can unilaterally change the fee on a whim, plus new Federal government is antagonistic to the whole program. Hochul won NY by a fairly narrow margin historically for the state against a pretty MAGA GOP guy. It's entirely possible some more normal blue state GOP type runs against her, wins and reduces the fee further.

> its harder to secure bonds now that Hochul has shown the governor can unilaterally change the fee on a whim

It goes in the bond indenture. State can’t revoke the charge whose revenues it has already sold without defaulting.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#610

Post by RhysU »

ben_w wrote: post #394
palmfacehn wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Situational awareness shouldn't be discounted.

I was hit by a car once, due to the driver's lack of situational awareness. I was turning from a major road into a minor road, a car was stopped at the exit to that minor road , but they failed to look in my direction, and pulled out into me. My bike was a write-off, fortunately I was uninjured — they had started from stationary, so probably less than 10 mph when they hit me, and I always wear a helmet.

My kid was bumped recently, by a similarly unobservant driver. Fortunately unharmed. I don't think the solution is reducing traffic density in my town, however, through taxation. Rather, encouraging accountability and discouraging distraction.
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