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Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

blog.dropbox.com

601–610 of 1001 posts

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#601

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

The idea that someone's response to being fired should be the same as a manager's response to one of their reports quitting is hilariously out of touch.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#602
post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no pleasing some people. Companies make cuts and don't give generous packages, they're evil. They give a package and it's just so they can dodge scrutiny. This kind of no-win complaining is tiresome.

Obviously the win is not laying people off. It's no secret that tech companies have not been hiring for sustainability and that sucks.

"It's no secret that tech companies have not been hiring for sustainability and that sucks."

Does it suck? It means that someone got a job where they didn't really have to do that much and got paid anyway.

An alternative is where that job was never offered. And then we're complaining that there's no jobs.

Also, no, the solution is not to "just hire the perfect amount". Sure if we could just do anything perfectly everything is great, but how is that a reasonable demand.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just delete your data dude. No one is forcing you to keep it there. They’re generally not going to do something destructive because of unpaid bills. It’s nice of them

But why do I have to log into Dropbox to do this? I haven't logged into the site in 2 years and don't plan on it. I just find it odd that they keep threatening to delete my data but from where I'm standing it looks like they will keep my data indefinitely. I'm not forcing them to do anything. I terminated my service and they're still keeping my data. Seems like shitty consumer rights that they'll just keep the data r…

>Seems like shitty consumer rights that they'll just keep the data regardless of what I do.

But they aren't keeping it regardless of what you do. You can ask them to delete it and they will. The power is in your hands and you are refusing to use it.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your manager doesn't get upset when you leave, bit weird how people feel so differently when they get fired. Really? You think its weird that someone leaving impacts that person more than their manager, team, or company? A manager doesn't care that you leave because he still gets to bring home a salary, all they have to do is hire another person and maybe cut back on scope for a little while. When someone is layed…

> People often have long term financial commitments they cannot back out of, and not knowing how you'll make rent, if you can afford your child's school fees, or even maybe having to cut back on how much you eat, _is stressful_ and emotionally taxing. I'm sure people making >200k/year and getting a 4 month severance package will be cutting back on how much they eat. What you say is true about low or even medium incom…

You'd be surprised what lifestyle creep does to people. Often people don't pay off their debts and instead scale their debts to their new income - it's stupid I know.

I agree they should be in a better position because of their income, and I'd say more than an average amount are. But there are still a lot of people in that bracket who absolutely would have the floor pulled out from under them.

People are often caught with their pants down assuming the good times will keep rolling. And even when they see the market downturn or have a generous severance, it still can be very difficult to scrape together the 6+ months emergency fund required on short notice.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#605
post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Severence is only so they can dodge regulatory scrutiny. They are not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts and was a line-item in the burden category for those employees when they were hired.

There's really no pleasing some people. Companies make cuts and don't give generous packages, they're evil. They give a package and it's just so they can dodge scrutiny. This kind of no-win complaining is tiresome.

[deleted]

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often that person's leadership wasn't the problem, but even when it was, that doesn't necessarily mean that the company will be better-off without them How convenient (for them)! When the company is doing well, they get millions in bonuses because their irreplaceable leadership skills - which make them 2000x more valuable than the least paid worker - were instrumental to the organization's success. When the chips a…

> must be nice to claim "macro-economic headwinds" as justification for poor performance and poor planning, but still get paid bonuses for the never-mentioned "macro-economic tailwinds" What would you do if you owned a business? Fire leadership every time they make a wrong call? Or ban them from admitting they made a wrong call?

If I owned a controlling stake in a business, I'd fire the leadership every time there's evidence of short-term thinking. The problem with public companies is systemic: a large fraction of shareholders want short term appreciation, and so they support and reward short-term mindsets in leaders at the cost of long-term value.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#607

Sad news. But the message is crafted well. Crisp and no overly emotional.

I asked ChatGPT to make it brutal:

    ---
    Listen up: 20% of you—528 people—are out. This isn’t a discussion. I’m pulling the plug on your roles. That’s it.

    Why? Because we’re not making enough money to keep this bloated mess afloat.

    We’ve been weighed down by too many damn layers, too much bureaucracy, and soft sales. We’re not here to carry dead weight. If your department wasn’t delivering, you’re gone. We’re only keeping what’s absolutely necessary to survive.

    What’s next

    This is a brutal market, and we’re not interested in getting left behind while our competitors rake it in. We’re cutting back hard and doubling down on what we think might actually make us cash. This is a no-BS, keep-up-or-get-out game now. You’ll hear more about our plans for 2025 soon.

    What you get if we’re cutting you loose

    Here’s what you can expect, take it or leave it:

        Severance: 16 weeks’ pay, plus an extra week for every year you put in here. If you’re international, you’ll get what’s legally required. No more, no less.
        Equity: We’ll throw you your Q4 vest.
        Bonus payout: If you were on a bonus plan, you’ll get a prorated payout based on what we predict you would’ve gotten.
        Leave payouts: If you had any paid leave left, you’ll get a check for it.
        Visa holders: We’re giving you a bit more time and a consult for your next steps. After that, you’re on your own.

    Healthcare

        US folks: Six more months of COBRA.
        Canada folks: One month of healthcare.
        All of you: You can still use Modern Health for therapy. You might need it.

    Devices

        Keep whatever company devices you’ve got. We’re not taking them back.

    Job placement

        You’ll get some career coaching and placement help, but after that, it’s up to you.

    What’s happening next

    We’ll give the rest of the details later today. If you’ve got questions, there’s a Town Hall later this week.

    For those who got cut: thanks for your work.
    ---

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#608

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

  > high tech salaries
Are they really high? They are not that different from UPS driver salaries.

Just the other day I clicked on the website of some random law firm's career page. I wasn't happy with what I saw (in the context of my own career). Some researchers with 1 year of experience with starting salary of 450k+... tech salaries look high as long as you don't check other professions.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Often that person's leadership wasn't the problem Then what is the problem? Ultimately you’re paid the big bucks for being held responsible. Why isn’t it never something like the CEO doesn’t get any stocks that year. I’m not saying he needs to leave the company but maybe he should take a substantial hit to his pay. He has enough money to put food on the table for many years, unlike the people who are let go where i…

The ones out of job can join a different company, america’s unemployment rate especially in the tech sector tends to be low. Them doing layoffs doesnt mean the people become destitute. It is better to layoff people who are not adding value to a company, so that those newly unemployed folks can join a different company and build great products and add more value to the economy. Ofcourse this only applies to US tech se…

Whenever people are laid off where you work, I suppose you always volunteer to take their place? Since according to you it's only such a minor inconvenience I think it would be hypocritical of you to not to offer to take their place.

Grandparent is not even saying that it should be avoided, just that the CEO should face some accountability from it. In many cases they have none at all, whereas the impact on the employees can range from actually quite low (as in your example) to very high. In fact there is no upper ceiling to impact to the worker which is the real problem. From the horror stories I've heard about the US they could even lose health insurance and end up with someone in the family dying because they can't afford treatment. Accountability is good precisely when there are such asymmetrical power imbalances, where one person makes the decision and someone else bears all the consequences. Either you add some feedback loops or the imbalance grows unchecked until it becomes unsustainable, and eventually you end up with a war of independence, or a French revolution and things like that.

With just a bit of empathy it should be easy to understand why accountability is needed in such situations to keep a good social dynamic long term. Someone with the empathy of a river boulder might think it's just people behaving irrationally, but I suggest you look into game theory and you'll see how some seemingly irrational behaviours like tit-for-tat are not as irrational as they seem.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually, I know why. It's because they have too much money Money was almost literally free for like a decade. I'm so glad that era is over, and I hope it never returns, but the period of adjustment as businesses discover that they have to actually have a business model again does suck a bit.

Forgive my ignorance, but why would very low interest rates ("almost free" money) be a bad thing we want to avoid? Isn't it for best if society keeps interest gathering, rent seeking, behavior to a minimum and instead encourages that more of the available capital is put to good use?

Because having a functional business model is what defines whether the use of capital is good or not. Bad outcomes from low interest rates are all these layoffs from overstaffing, all the wasted human-years on blockchain & NFT garbage during 2021, VCs blowing money on obvious failures like Juicero, etc. These are not good uses of capital, and if they had to have a real business plan to get capital in the first place, it would not have been wasted.
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