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Is the attack helicopter dead?

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Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#601

Post by aguaviva »

LtWorf wrote: post #599
aguaviva wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a caricature. These countries haven't been colonies for decades, and Russia's efforts to gain influence in these places isn't "colonial" either. It's something else - a new game with different rules. You can decry/condemn it this influence-jockeying all want, but if you can't get past 19th/20th century idioms and imagery about how the world operates, you'll never get anywhere in your analysis.

Ah yes, it's "territories" nowadays. It's completely the same besides the name!

No, they're called "countries" actually. I highly doubt you'd get very far with this "territory" label if you were to bring it up in a discussion with anyone actually from these places.

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#602

Post by tuatoru »

nradov wrote: post #496
michaelt wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’re still in the very early stage of drone development for warfare and Ukraine is using a lot of civilian gear. Now the armed forces of the world are plowing their funding into R&D I expect them to develop quickly. I'm not sure that follows. Military drones like the Predator have been around for 30 years - at a cost of $30 million a drone. US military contractors are many things, but they're never cheap. And at t…

A DJI Mavic with a grenade has a flight time of only about 20 minutes, and can only operate at low attitude and close to the operator. The MQ-1 Predator can travel hundreds of km under satellite control and orbit for hours at medium altitude to provide persistent overwatch with advanced sensors. The cheap drones used in Ukraine are in no way a substitute for large, expensive drones like the Predator / Reaper. They ad…

In the middle there is, among other things, the "cardboard drone"[1]. 120 km range. Quoted costs $700 - $3000 depending on role.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sypaq_Corvo_Precision_Payload_...

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#603

Post by oneshtein »

ceejayoz wrote: post #580
oneshtein wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The treaty, signed by Ukraine: https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/995_098#Text Ukrainian law about joining the treaty: https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/248/94-%D0%B2%D1%80#Text

OK, that one is the original 1968 treaty they acceded to after leavin the Soviet Union. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Non-Proliferatio... . As with any treaty, it can be broken/withdrawn from. The treaty does not establish a right/recourse to a nuclear weapons program to NPT members in Ukraine's scenario. Ukraine just, when agreeing to it, said they'd leave if they had to. They would be non-compliant wi…

Ukraine can join NPT back in exchange for safety assurances. No need for sanctions.

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#604

Post by Eisenstein »

theelous3 wrote: post #593
Eisenstein wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a problem until it is one, and the it can be a huge problem. I don't know anyone who was ever made to look foolish saying 'it is improbable, but let's prepare for it anyway' whereas plenty of graves are filled with people who said 'that will never happen'.

> It isn't a problem until it is one > anyone who was ever made to look foolish saying[...] These are common throwaway sayings people with no concept of resources and an overly active aversion to risk often use. The reality of the situation is that nobody cares to invest in some insanely expensive and vulnerable platform to hijack drones, because 1. it will probably get taken out by a drone 2. it would cost orders of…

You are telling me that the US has made plans for invading or defending against every scenario imaginable[1], but they wouldn't bother considering the 'our drones are being hijacked and used against us' scenario? Just because you are overly confident doesn't make caution an extreme position.

[1] https://williamaarkin.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/arkins-con...

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#605

Post by guappa »

mcphage wrote: post #497
guappa wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it helps anyone to separate what israel does from what USA does. Everything that israel does is authorized and aided by the USA. It'd all stop the very second the USA told them to stop. Related reading. https://chomsky.info/20210512/

> It'd all stop the very second the USA told them to stop. What makes you think that? And which “the USA”, since Netanyahu has been in discussions with both Biden’s administration, and Trump.

The fact that they'd have no weapons if not for USA?

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#606

Post by guappa »

theelous3 wrote: post #592
guappa wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, not a problem at all. It never has happened before. Oh wait! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93U.S._RQ-170_incid...

Did you read that article? That drone was electronically taken out of the sky and rendered useless, it was not commandeered and used against the US. Where did I claim nobody's ever taken out a drone with ewar? Plus this action presumably took an entire squadron with extremely powerful ewar apparatus - a complete waste of time on an 800e drone that will be replaced before the one you've dropped even hits the ground.

Well Iran says they landed it, USA said they crashed it. I don't really know who's less believable between the 2.

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#607

Post by InDubioProRubio »

nine_k wrote: post #550
InDubioProRubio wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FPV-drones can also be precise post-mortem. You record the flight as command-inputs in sim from start location. Then you deploy the drone from some carrying vehicle, land and loiter, listening for a trigger. Trigger comes, the drone flies only gets a connection for a lineup if any and flies through the "line up" trajectory. Pilot involvement can be optional.

Should work as long as the drone's inertial and visual navigation stay adequate. (I suppose that GPS and the like gets constantly jammed near high-value targets.)

In theory, you could do loitering mines that go back and forth, every trigger, resting and solar charging in between

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#608

Post by LtWorf »

aguaviva wrote: post #601
LtWorf wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, it's "territories" nowadays. It's completely the same besides the name!

No, they're called "countries" actually. I highly doubt you'd get very far with this "territory" label if you were to bring it up in a discussion with anyone actually from these places.

Wait you're unaware that france has territories???? Please do some reading before doing the lecturing, it might be more pleasant for everyone involved.

I guess you're also completely unaware of the shenanigans they pull to avoid giving independence.

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#609

Post by oneshtein »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #564
oneshtein wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War with imperial Japan was won with nukes.

Because Japan had exactly zero nukes to send back at the US. Russia has 2000. What percentage of them are you willing to gamble are working? Are 10% of them working? That's 200 US cities. So, no. We are absolutely not going to follow your logic. There is too much chance that they have enough nukes working to make us infinitely regret a nuclear exchange.

Yep, but Ukraine took the risk, invaded RF, and we are still alive.

Re: Is the attack helicopter dead?

#610

Post by aguaviva »

LtWorf wrote: post #608
aguaviva wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're called "countries" actually. I highly doubt you'd get very far with this "territory" label if you were to bring it up in a discussion with anyone actually from these places.

Wait you're unaware that france has territories???? Please do some reading before doing the lecturing, it might be more pleasant for everyone involved. I guess you're also completely unaware of the shenanigans they pull to avoid giving independence.

Mais bien sur, but they aren't the places Russia has been trying to gain influence in.

I'm not lecturing about anything, and it seems you're jumping to a whole bunch of unwarranted conclusions here.

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