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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#601

Post by tryauuum »

vzaliva wrote: post #261

Well, this is the consequence of Telegram's poor privacy choices. Most chats are not end-to-end encrypted, and they could have access to their content. This makes them liable when they refuse governments' requests for such information. It also raises the question of whether they have given such access to other governments like Russia (coincidentally, Durov was in Baku at the same time Putin was visiting, and there is…

> This makes them liable when they refuse governments' requests for such information

If all the chats are e2e encrypted then the government will arrest you for designing chats in such a way that a backdoor is impossible

Like we say in Russia, "as long as we have a man we can find a law to imprison him"

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#602

Post by jack_pp »

Barrin92 wrote: post #352
vessenes wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted your comment so that it has a bit of visibility because I know some people think this, but I disagree with it, very strongly. First, your analogy is broken -- roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly. Second, you propose your preferred moral economy as one that only curtails harms. In fact, you create another harm implementing what you think is right. Reasonabl…

>First, your analogy is broken -- roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly. and they're usually public property and policed. Routine police inspection on a road and in particular control of borders and key nodes in your transportation infrastructure isn't exactly controversial. (unless you're part of some extreme political faction). You know a lot of countries where peop…

That's because they are different, police can come with a warrant to check your house for illegal activity but they can't monitor you remotely 24/7 with barely any human intervention and store everything you do indefinitely. With electronic communication you either get full privacy or none.

And no, putting company's in charge of your privacy isn't a solution, if they can be compelled to give away your communication history then they'll abuse it. Have you not learned anything from the Snowden leaks?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#603

Post by ssijak »

ranndino wrote: post #551
a0123 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, the legislation in France and in the EU that is most likely behind this arrest is that companies have to at least try to do some moderation. There is an understanding that not everything can be moderated (obviously, the entire Internet would be banned otherwise) but there has to be a genuine attempt. Which every company does more or less. The fact that Telegram doesn't reach this extremely low, very low…

Telegram is not a behemoth like Facebook so doesn't have their resources to moderate everything. Even Facebook isn't particularly good at it. They mostly rely on software which often produces false positives. This arrest is completely preposterous and is just an attempt to get Durov to play ball with France's privacy destroying authorities.

Not being a behemot is not an excuse if they are not moderating criminal behavior at all. I dont know if that is the case, just pointing that logic is not sound.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#604

Post by dijit »

codethief wrote: post #422
foverzar wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> well, at least Signal Basically only Signal + Whatsapp. > claiming they don't do anything for privacy. Well, Signal is kind of a scam in that regard.

How is Signal "a kind of scam in that regard"?

https://blog.dijit.sh/i-don-t-trust-signal/

tl;dr: Lots of claims, lots of support.. but very little to back it up once you scratch the surface.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#605

Post by NayamAmarshe »

api wrote: post #514
sva_ wrote: post #510

It's all just speculation here. Maybe the French gov knows some stuff we don't. I always found that guy's story of living 'in exile' from Russia a bit suspect. And now Russian government officials are calling for his release. Need more information to make any kind of judgement. What I'm pretty sure of now is that this probably has nothing to do with encryption.

Telegram encryption is off by default and is a joke compared to Signal and others. This has nothing to do with encryption. I could list a dozen E2E encrypted things in common use that are all legal and online. It has nothing to do with ordinary sorts of “bad” content either like hate speech or crypto scams or whatever. All of that can be found in abundance in many places, all of which are still online. This is about…

> Telegram encryption is off by default

This is false. Telegram's non-secret chats use MTProto 2.0 Cloud. "Encryption is off by default" is a false claim.

1. https://telegram.org/faq#q-do-you-process-data-requests

2. https://core.telegram.org/mtproto/description

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#606

Post by [deleted] »

codedokode wrote: post #512
pajeets wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Korean meth is sold in bulk on Telegram channels in South Korea. Drug abuse is out of control and crypto currency is used by NK to sell drugs to SK and use funds for its regime.

How do they get it across the well-guarded border by the way?

[deleted]

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#607

Post by bun_terminator »

sega_sai wrote: post #322

A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…

It's also perfectly fair to believe that no written (or spoken) word should be illegal

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#608

Post by 3np »

oska wrote: post #589
wordpad25 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large spectrum between total anarchy and totalitarian regime, so in the same way there is a spectrum in free speech.

No, there is no spectrum when it comes to Free Speech. Free Speech is an ideal that promotes total freedom to say whatever you want and is against all (state) censorship. (And btw, I'm unaware of anything that exists that is a 'spectrum' apart from the electromagnetic spectrum. To have the quality of being a spectrum, the subject must continuously span a 1-dimensional space. It's a way overused metaphor, in my opinio…

> And btw

So you correctly identify that modelling it as a one-dimensional spectrum is a gross over-simplification. Then conclude that as it's not a one-dimensonal spectrum, it must be a binary property? Rather than accepting that reality is more complex than is easily captured in common language?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#609

Post by 55555 »

NoxiousPluK wrote: post #339
codedokode wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram allows to report illegal posts; I suggest that France arrests those who saw the posts but didn't report them instead.

To be fair, anyone that has used Telegram for a while know that this is just a mock option to fool regulators. You can report all you want; zero action is taken. There are dozens of accounts that joined groups I'm in to spam CSAM. We've reported them, kicked/banned them from the group. Months later you can look them up and they're still there and still active. They even post CSAM in their public (visible for everyone…

I’ve used tg daily for 7+ years and have never seen CSAM. What kind of groups are you in? Genuine question. I assume some sort of “teen” porn groups?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#610

Post by [deleted] »

codedokode wrote: post #507
pajeets wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram and cryptocurrency has single handedly responsible for the recent drug epidemic, sex blackmail rings in South Korea. Cant say I have good things to say about Telegram founders and operators. Its not some innocent "free speech" messenger app, its sinister

You won't believe for what are responsible paper money printed by central banks. As for those South Korea-related stories, the blame is partially on the government. For example, an operator of a website selling illegal videos got only 18 months in that country [1]. [1] https://www.chinadailyhk.com/hk/article/135865

[deleted]
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