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Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

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Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#601
post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Luckily, Lemonade has smarter systems and got my location right, so I was able to get insured with them. But I'm not sure what I would do without lemonade. Insurers with better information will be able to judge risk better, so they can undercut competitors on lower risk or avoid taking on higher risk. That really is what a competitive insurance market should be like right?

>That really is what a competitive insurance market should be like right? Should be. But states like California cap insurance rates in such a way that insurers are dropping (non-renewing) policies, since they can't charge market rates.

It's because California pushes their FAIR plan which is expensive and has terrible coverage. It's a corrupt and unethical solution for the state to recoup its budget deficit.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#602
post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some insurance companies will allow trampolines -- at a cost. We had to get rid of ours because the cost and liability just wasnt worth it.

So in the richest country in the world parents can't let their kids play on trampolines because a neighbours kid having an accident on one would bankrupt their insurance company. Meanwhile, toddlers do active shooter drills like they are fire alarm drills. Totally logical country you got there with a perfectly reasonable approach to risk.

Your child is much more likely to be injured on a trampoline than in a school shooting

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers want to pool risks with other customers that are lower risk than they are. Florida homeowner want to be on a national market because they are the highest risk group. Obviously the rest of us want Florida to be separate.

It's good to want things! But if you're a bad driver, you don't get to pool with people with zero accidents and tickets.

This is a really bad analogy that doesn’t hold water.

There are good drivers and bad drivers. There are also good homeowners and bad homeowners. I live in Florida, but chose not to live in a flood-prone area. We also have hurricane clips on our roof, and we just changed all our windows to impact-resistant windows (with the help of a state-sponsored program, actually). Our insurance isn’t that high at all. Could it be lower? Sure, I’d love that. And maybe a national program would do that.

Modern building codes require things like impact windows and that the building be rated for high winds. Older buildings should be retrofitted with things like impact windows, but I would only call those homeowners “bad drivers” if they can afford to do so but don’t. I wouldn’t blame an elderly person on fixed income for not affording to do this and call them a “bad driver”.

I’ve walked around San Francisco quite a bit since my company is based out of there, and I’ve seen a lot of people retrofitting their houses with those diagonal beams for earthquakes. San Francisco is waiting for the “big one”; is anyone who can’t dump money into living in a safer building, or retrofitting the one they own, the equivalent of a “bad driver”? Obviously not.

FYI in Tampa, also called the “Bay Area” to locals, we’re also waiting for “the big one” (a CAT-4 or CAT-5 coming directly into shallow Tampa Bay, which would cause an enormous storm surge). That last happened in 1918 or so and it actually permanently changed the geography where it came in, creating an area known as Hurricane Pass. All we can do is prepare and be responsible to our communities.

Anyways, you can’t lump all people in a geography, regardless of behavior, into one group. It does a disservice to the people who are doing the right thing.

Unless your building has been fully retrofitted for [insert local disaster] or you chose to live outside of [insert worst geography in your area to live with regards to local disaster], then you’re a “bad driver” too.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#604
post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand how states like California don’t understand basic economics.

California is one of the capitalistic states out there. But they have politicians, government, regulation, like any other state. Insurers are also rapidly leaving Florida, so it might not just be about regulation, or those two states do lots of regulation, or something in between.

Its about reality. Both states should be.preventing public housing where reoccuring signifixant hazards effect populations. Instead, they.try to manipulate the insurance market.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#605
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, or without regulation when people switch risk categories due to a loss they get completely screwed because no company will insure them anymore. At which point, there is strong incentive to only claim the most outrageously bad losses, and for people to only actually get insurance if they have real reason to suspect a loss that is non obvious to others. It’s a market type that is fundamentally messy and prone to ab…

> Eh, or without regulation when people switch risk categories due to a loss they get completely screwed because no company will insure them anymore. This only happens when regulations cap premiums, because otherwise there is always a rate at which selling insurance is profitable. Even if you have a 50% risk of a claim (extremely high), you'd still be able to buy $100,000 in insurance for a little over $50,000. Of co…

Hard to ‘refrain’ from buying health insurance in the middle of cancer treatment eh?

Or ‘refrain’ from buying house insurance because someone tripped in your house and is suing you for $1M worth of damages, or you discovered your house was built in a high risk fire zone.

Or ‘refrain’ from buying vehicle insurance after an accident because the state will not let you drive without valid insurance.

That’s the whole point.

Because for normal humans, there is no difference between ‘insurance won’t be issued’ and premiums shooting up from $100/mo to $90k/mo. especially when the policy renewal period is in the middle of whatever is going on. Like trying to live. And if insurance companies didn’t have caps on premiums, that’s what they’d do - or just cancel it to avoid even worse PR.

At least ‘pre existing conditions’ aren’t automatically a death sentence when trying to switch insurance anymore eh?

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#606
post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That really is what a competitive insurance market should be like right? Should be. But states like California cap insurance rates in such a way that insurers are dropping (non-renewing) policies, since they can't charge market rates.

It's because California pushes their FAIR plan which is expensive and has terrible coverage. It's a corrupt and unethical solution for the state to recoup its budget deficit.

Do you have evidence that they make money on their plan? My impression is that insurance of last resort isn’t cheap to provide, they’re only getting the people that were too high risk to qualify for a cheaper commercial plan.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, I spent years working and building 0-1 insurance products. Let me peel back some stuff that’s been happening behind the scenes. Some officials are elected and some are appointed which all depends on the state. Appointed officials are usually more reasonable and elected are not because higher rates = mad voters = re-election chances lower. For a long time, insurers have struggled to get sufficient rate change…

Why are insurance rates regulated by the government? I understand that the state has a strong interest in ensuring that insurance companies are adequately capitalized, but I don’t understand the state interest in directly regulating premium prices. (Or is that not what you are referring to?)

> Why are insurance rates regulated by the government?

Why wouldn't they be?

The only reason why you might believe they shouldn't be is if you fell for the "free market knows all" nonsense.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#608
post #231
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is basic insurance for ordinary people a for-profit business at all, rather than something the collective (administered by the state) does to soften any misfortune that hits any of its members?

Mathematically, if you sell insurance at break even, you're guaranteed to go bankrupt - on an infinite time scale, the "spike" of a random walk martingale (this last word means, it doesn't make a profit) will exceed every level, i.e. it will wipe out any amount of collateral / capital / equity the company might have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_iterated_logarithm

What a bunch of nonsense.

If you believe that in an infinite time scale the spike of a "random walk martingale" will exceed every level, then you also believe that you'll go bankrupt even if you don't sell insurance at break even. Maybe mathematically incorrect, but entirely irrelevant in the real world.

IN ADDITION, the money that insurers make isn't just the underwriting profit but also the investment profit. You you're talking twice as much shit as the average HN commenter.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#609
My insurance company asked me for photos of our roof to prove it was metal and not asphalt. From a distance it looks like asphalt because it is metal with a stone grit coating just like asphalt. Could a photo from a drone see this?. Maybe. I also live under the final approach flight path of the local airport so maybe they couldn't verify using their drone.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#610
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematically, if you sell insurance at break even, you're guaranteed to go bankrupt - on an infinite time scale, the "spike" of a random walk martingale (this last word means, it doesn't make a profit) will exceed every level, i.e. it will wipe out any amount of collateral / capital / equity the company might have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_iterated_logarithm

What a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that in an infinite time scale the spike of a "random walk martingale" will exceed every level, then you also believe that you'll go bankrupt even if you don't sell insurance at break even. Maybe mathematically incorrect, but entirely irrelevant in the real world. IN ADDITION, the money that insurers make isn't just the underwriting profit but also the investment profit. You y…

I don’t ”believe” in math, I can prove it.

If you don’t sell at break even, it’s not a martingale, so the Law doesn’t apply.

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