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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#601

Post by jay-barronville »

gataca wrote: post #577
jay-barronville wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t rocket science. Israel has killed more than 13,000 children in less than 5 months. This is only counting the children. That’s almost 4.5 9/11’s in children alone. And our (Americans) taxpayer dollars is helping sponsor these war crimes. Israel has one of the most advanced military and intelligence apparatuses in the world. And Palestinians are some of the most surveilled humans in the world. Israel knows w…

Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide…

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas […]

This is an unserious argument.

1. The numbers come from Gaza’s Ministry of Health, which is indeed “controlled” by Hamas since Hamas is their governing entity.

2. The Ministry has no verifiable history of being wrong on the civilian casualty numbers. In fact, it’s quite the opposite: The Ministry’s numbers have held up to scrutiny in ALL of the previous wars (including scrutiny from Israel) [0].

3. The Biden Administration has corroborated the numbers.

4. Israel hasn’t denied the numbers. In fact, in one report from the IDF a couple months ago, they corroborated the Ministry’s numbers at the time.

5. The same silly argument could be made to dismiss just about anything coming from Israel given their documented history of lying and even manipulating our (American) media, from lies about beheaded babies [1] to pushing propaganda via U.S. media outlets like the New York Times [2].

> The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. […]

This is just a whataboutism and another unserious argument.

One evil act doesn’t justify another evil act. This is as serious of an argument as someone trying to justify slavery in 2024 by pointing to America’s history with slavery.

[0]: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-mini...

[1]: https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-ba...

[2]: https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schw...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#602

Post by password54321 »

Israel has distracted the entire West from Ukraine and is mostly being driven by someone who seems to be more self-interested than anything else. The West has been played like a total fool and this is what Hamas wanted, to follow Israel into creating an unstable environment where we are now even bombing Yemen all while other countries like China continue to grow.

The fact that the attack happened right as relations were about to normalise with both Turkey and Saudi Arabia is all you need as evidence.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#603

Post by rightbyte »

porkbeer wrote: post #481
greatgib wrote: post #455

[flagged]

Yes, even viewpoints you disagree with can be sold as news, and those reporting it should not be murdered without a trial.

It think it was your point, but to be clear since there seem to be some confusion among some, any trial is also unnessecary, since there is no crime commited.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#604

Post by GordonS »

gataca wrote: post #577
jay-barronville wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t rocket science. Israel has killed more than 13,000 children in less than 5 months. This is only counting the children. That’s almost 4.5 9/11’s in children alone. And our (Americans) taxpayer dollars is helping sponsor these war crimes. Israel has one of the most advanced military and intelligence apparatuses in the world. And Palestinians are some of the most surveilled humans in the world. Israel knows w…

Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide…

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas

The UN and Lancet [0] believe the numbers are credible. Let's not forget there are likely 10k+ civilians still burried under rubble too.

> Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists

Come on, you are not commenting in good faith. There is zero credible evidence that any rape took place, Hamas have staunchly denied it, and from what returning hostages have said it seems incredibly unlikely. There is however an abundance of evidence that Israel is trying to use rape as attrocity propaganda.

> it’s tragic that Hamas is killing its own people this way

This is absolutely absurd - it's like telling a domestic violence victim it's their own fault.

[0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#605

Post by toyg »

incognos wrote: post #533
whatshisface wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know and work with Israelis and former Palestinians, and it is difficult enough to navigate the stresses without the added complexity of each side reading totally different news outlets and never talking about it in the same forums. I always try to handle this stuff at work (and political issues are absolutely part of the lunchtime tapestry that impacts the cohesion of engineering teams) by sticking to the facts,…

[flagged]

> How does one become a "former Palestinian"

I guess by obtaining a different citizenship and renouncing the original one, but tbh I expect parent poster meant folks who were born in another country from Palestinian parents.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#606

Post by chiefalchemist »

McNutty wrote: post #13
blurbleblurble wrote: post #6

I appreciate that this is on here and I hope we can collectively handle it. Tech isn't isolated from this situation, as difficult as it is to admit and talk about with civility and care. A US military software engineer even self immolated recently in protest of what's happening. I don't see what's happening in Gaza as being culturally particular to the specific identity groups involved here. It's a very human situati…

Strongly disagree. This platform for tech news should not become a place for political posts, nor even for posting regular news headlines. Yes we know that reddit sucks but stop trying to make hn into reddit. Also the community can't handle it, just look at the handful of comments we already have here.

Perhaps. But if not us then who?

Maybe it's not a matter of who we are, but who we should be?

Easier said than done? Oh yeah, we're soft and lazy from a life diet high on - literally - coconvenience.

Put another way, when we collectively decide "we can't talk about X or Y" the control of that topic gets outsourced: outsourced to "leaders" who evidently are less capable.

In short, yes there is risk. But the alternatives consistently qualify as insanity.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#607

Post by incognos »

tromp wrote: post #588
incognos wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot declare war on a territory you occupy and control. It is as if the United States declared war on Washington DC or any of their numerous prisons.

Israel neither occupied nor controlled the Gaza interior prior to Hamas' attack. They only controlled the border and what goes in and out of Gaza (some cross border tunnels excepted). Within Gaza, Hamas and the Palistinian National Authority ruled.

They did both... They control everything that goes in and out of gaza:

I quote from MSNBC "Despite pleas from the United Nations and human rights groups, Israel has maintained a land, air and sea blockade on Gaza since 2007 that has had a devastating effect on Palestinian civilians."

How do you rule if you control nothing? all the utilities are controlled by Israel. Travel, nope, controlled by Israel. Exports, nope, controlled by Israel. What are they ruling?

Israel created Hamas to weaken the Palestinian Authority - which itself is severely corrupt and complacent. People are seeking a better life. How else do you think Trump got elected? was he the better candidate? (and yes, I did just conflate Trump and Hamas)

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#608

Post by erokar »

ars wrote: post #324
erokar wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well not like all others, this one has Jews in it, so it gets extra attention. What's that supposed to mean?

Well, let's quiz you then: What country currently has millions of people are risk of starving to death due to war? I'll give you more clues: it's also one of the largest mass displacements of people due to war in current times, with plenty of rape and ethnic cleansing. I will of course want to see how many comments you've posted about the topic, and how many HN submissions. Since obviously this war is many times larg…

Ah I see, the common whataboutism combined with a little bit of antisemitism accusations. Good one.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#609

Post by toyg »

sitkack wrote: post #429
pvg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes if you google 'how many journalists died in WW2' in Russian you get numbers from a couple of hundred to over a thousand for the Soviet Union alone. The 69 number listed at https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30embed.... is almost certainly just US journalists.

The vast majority of all deaths in the WW2 were Soviet. The Soviet Union really deserves the gold medal position for winning WW2.

Tbf, a lot of those victims were due to dubious strategic choices. They could have probably conceded Stalingrad, for example, and refused to simply because of the propaganda angle. That battle alone was an absolute meat-grinder, and didn't really have to be.

But yes, the overall cost in human lives was higher for the Soviet Union than for any other country or federation.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#610

Post by gryzzly »

GordonS wrote: post #593
gryzzly wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is "Israel"? are you referring to the people of Israel? Do you believe that 9 million Israelis have interest of killing and displacing Palestinians and crush them as a people? and what interest Palestinians have in regard to Israelis from your point of view?

Going by Israeli TV, Telegram channels and polls, unfortunately it really does seem like a large proportion of Israelis think of Palestinians as sub-human bugs to be crushed. Already we've seen settlers building an "outpost" inside Gaza, while Israeli soldiers watch on. Meanwhile, Israeli civilians block aid to starving children, again while the IDF watch.

can you link me to such polls?
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