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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#601

Post by Symbiote »

rconti wrote: post #274
CharlieDigital wrote: post #183

Not sure about the economics for the rental companies, but for a consumer, there are practical reasons why electric aren't quite as attractive. When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? Ho…

Yup. I own a Tesla and it's been a great car. I charge it at home, and I know how the supercharging network works. I've been OFFERED electric rentals in: * Tromsø Norway (on a roadtrip through the Lofoten) * Nelson NZ * Brisbane AU The reality is, when I rent a car on vacation, I'm typically doing more miles per day than when I'm at home. That's because I'm not sitting at work 9 hours a day! Plus, I don't know their…

No doubt? :-)

Norway has 503 Superchargers, 1 per 11,000 people.

California has 307, 1 per 130,000.

I haven't checked NZ or Oz, or looked at a map for Norway. There are also 10 times that many non-Tesla chargers, of which some will be the highest power.

All three countries have 230V domestic electricity, so in the worst case you can charge at about 2.5kW (more, e.g. 3kW, if you're more confident of the wiring).

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#602

Post by Shrezzing »

chx wrote: post #594
dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

To be fair, the current generation of electronic vehicles are a terrible idea. Sure, at first sight you are not burning fossil fuel in your car so you are slowing down climate change. Plenty of studies show the life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions are significantly lower for an EV than an ICE vehicle. https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-l... Although perhaps a mere half is not what people would…

> the current generation of electronic vehicles are a terrible idea... Although perhaps a mere half is not what people would think at first when they just compare tailpipe emissions

The methodolody used by IEA for that chart uses the 2021 global average grid carbon intensity to calculate its electricity generation. If you live in Iceland, Sweeden, UK, Vermont, or similar regions with highly decarbonised grids, the majority of the chart's Electricity co2e isn't generated for that vehicle.

You've got to consider your local average grid carbon intensity, and how that will change across the 20 year lifecycle of the vehicle.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#603

Post by Sebb767 »

starbugs wrote: post #570
rdtsc wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not a knock on EV's really, mostly the charging infrastructure and the rental experience. But why not knock on them? They had a lot of promise and a lot of hype when they were being touted as simpler and cheaper and just overall better. Somehow they ended up being more expensive, unless we're talking about Chinese brands, more costly to insure, a longer time to charge than a corresponding IC car and incompatible ch…

> Somehow they ended up being more expensive, unless we're talking about Chinese brands The Chinese brands' pricing seems to be at least in part due to subsidies: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsid... At least that's what the EU says. > But why not knock on them? I would agree that the discussion on EVs is a bit misguided in general. It always is EVs or ICE cars and EVs must be the winner ot…

From your link:

> The anti-subsidy investigation covers battery-powered cars from China, so also includes non-Chinese brands made there, such as Tesla (TSLA.O), Renault (RENA.PA) and BMW (BMWG.DE). It is also unusual in that it is brought by the European Commission itself, rather than in response to an industry complaint.

This does seem like more of a political play rather than China actually trying to flood western markets, especially considering that western EV producers are also being subsidized and that the Chinese domestic market is sufficiently large by itself.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#604

Post by cik »

Here, the local car sharing service had two plans. The first was pick and and drop off wherever you want cars, the second pick up and return cars. The former were electric, the latter gas powered.

The electric cars were never powered up. Even when parked beside a charger, people simply wouldn't plug them in. When they did, the cars would charge for lengthy periods of time, and hence be unavailable. Gas won.

Despite eletric being half the cost, and more covenient as a one way option, people chose to willingly pay more, and use gas.

Today, the same system is gas only. Electric isn't suitable for this use case.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#605

Post by starbugs »

Sebb767 wrote: post #603
starbugs wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow they ended up being more expensive, unless we're talking about Chinese brands The Chinese brands' pricing seems to be at least in part due to subsidies: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsid... At least that's what the EU says. > But why not knock on them? I would agree that the discussion on EVs is a bit misguided in general. It always is EVs or ICE cars and EVs must be the winner ot…

From your link: > The anti-subsidy investigation covers battery-powered cars from China, so also includes non-Chinese brands made there, such as Tesla (TSLA.O), Renault (RENA.PA) and BMW (BMWG.DE). It is also unusual in that it is brought by the European Commission itself, rather than in response to an industry complaint. This does seem like more of a political play rather than China actually trying to flood western…

> This does seem like more of a political play

Agreed. That's why I added "At least that's what the EU says."

The EU is clearly whining because the Chinese local market imploded, so they are now exporting more of their cars into the EU markets.

Yet, articles like the linked one make it unclear to me what part of EV production is really subsidized and what part is not. I think it would be advisable to be cautious about claims that they are already cheaper than ICE cars. At least, that's how I am looking at it currently.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#606

Post by callalex »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #515
dcchambers wrote: post #453

Im bullish on EVs but I feel like rental cars are one of the worst places for the current generation of EVs. EVs are best for the types of driving we do on a day-to-day basis. Short commutes in areas we know well. Charge at home over night and 95% of the year you never worry about charging. Renting a car means I'm usually either driving long distances or im somewhere new and I don't know about the local charging infr…

I saw a funny picture of a guy that was driving with a gas power generator strapped to his Tesla (On Hitch Mount Cargo Carrier). Just curious how much he could extend his range. And if this would be a practical alternative.

It’s a mistake to believe every picture you see on the internet is real.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#607

Post by Spare_account »

cik wrote: post #604

Here, the local car sharing service had two plans. The first was pick and and drop off wherever you want cars, the second pick up and return cars. The former were electric, the latter gas powered. The electric cars were never powered up. Even when parked beside a charger, people simply wouldn't plug them in. When they did, the cars would charge for lengthy periods of time, and hence be unavailable. Gas won. Despite e…

When I return a gas powered hire car, I'm required to return it with the same amount of fuel as I picked it up with. I sign a contract that states I'll be charged a higher-than-pump price to top up the car if I breach this requirement.

Does the same (or an equivalent, eg: Plug it in to charge upon return) requirement not apply to electric cars?

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#608

Post by callalex »

phinnaeus wrote: post #324
afavour wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Got a Polestar for a surprisingly cheap price on Hertz recently and I was really impressed with it. If I were in the market I think I’d take it over a Tesla.

Ooof. I own a Model 3 and was really looking forward to my Polestar 2 rental in NZ over the holidays. It felt like a massive downgrade in pretty much every way to me. The biggest thing was the responsiveness, it was on par with a standard ICE vehicle in terms of how sluggish it was. I was incredibly disappointed given that I would love to look elsewhere (from Tesla) for my next vehicle.

I’m confused, you were driving a rented car on a racetrack?

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#610

Post by brnt »

nsteel wrote: post #590
brnt wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These don't exist in Europe.

Rubbish. > The stations are primarily deployed in three regions: Asia Pacific (over 2,000), North America (over 2,000), and Europe (over 1,000). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger Some supercharger stations also work with other cars. I used them over Christmas with my Kia. Surprisingly they were faster and cheaper than anything else in the area.

Those in Europese arent what they are in the US, they're just, of ten individuap, stations with the common plug, just like the other ones.
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