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Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

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Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#601

Post by buffington »

mikeryan wrote: post #137

One thing that EV's have an advantage of is the reduced footprint of their drivetrain. The primary bulk of an EV is the massive battery that usually spans the bottom of the car opening up space in the interior or the ubiquitous EV "frunk" this makes for a more spacious interior and the Y takes advantage of this well. That being said it seems that 2023 is the year of the EV, my family is currently in the market for a…

I own a Model 3, and one thing I didn't fully appreciate until a recent 2000+ mile roadtrip is how good the Tesla Super Charger network is. Even in remote parts of Nevada we were always within range of a Super Charger. Using the onboard nav system made that even better, since it's aware of how busy a station is, or if the station is even functional, and would route accordingly.

I don't know much about other charging networks, but I've used non-Tesla chargers a handful of times over the past two years, and every time, it was a poor experience. They've been slow, some have stopped working a few minutes into a charge, or don't work at all. In two separate cases the chargers I drove to didn't actually exist, despite being directed to them by those networks' apps. In one case, they weren't built yet, and in another, the chargers weren't even properly mounted to the ground and getting blown around by the wind and leaning over as far as the underground cables would allow.

Prior to my roadtrip the charging network wouldn't have been much of a selling point for me since I usually charge at home. But after? I think it's far more important than I realized.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#602

Post by buffington »

tshaddox wrote: post #244
mikeryan wrote: post #137

One thing that EV's have an advantage of is the reduced footprint of their drivetrain. The primary bulk of an EV is the massive battery that usually spans the bottom of the car opening up space in the interior or the ubiquitous EV "frunk" this makes for a more spacious interior and the Y takes advantage of this well. That being said it seems that 2023 is the year of the EV, my family is currently in the market for a…

> That being said it seems that 2023 is the year of the EV, my family is currently in the market for a new car and have been pleasantly surprised at the breadth of offerings. My wife and I are in the market for a second car, after buying an ICE SUV at the beginning of the pandemic and having no car for 10 years before that (living in San Francisco). There’s a lot of options for a $40,000+ primary family car, but my i…

I always considered our Model 3 as a second car because we mostly just drove it for local errands and commuting, and I assumed it just didn't have the range to do more.

We recently decided to use for a 2000+ mile road trip instead of using our ICE minivan, and I was blown away with how well the Tesla did as a long road trip vehicle.

We had no range anxiety because of the Super Charger network, and stopping to charge for 45 minutes after driving for 3 hours was far more enjoyable than anticipated.

Where it really did well was also surprising. Have you ever been going up a slight grade on a long highway stretch and find yourself needing to pass a slower vehicle? Most cars I've owned, when already going 65+, take a bit of time to pass a truck going up a hill. Even my 400HP+ modified Subaru STI takes its time as it needs to build turbo pressure and RPMs before it'll get fast enough to comfortably pass up hill.

The Model 3 doesn't even know there's a hill. It'll go from 60 to 120 as fast as it goes from 0-60 like the hill doesn't exist. Fully loaded with 4 adults and their stuff too.

Combine the raw power the car has with the climate control, good sound, full glass roof, ample cargo space and legroom, and it's the best car I've ever used on a long trip, no question. It's just not sub-$40k (at least for most people - I bought mine for $35k from a family member).

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#603

Post by elihu »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #293
elif wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think the model Y isn't solid or reliable? I'm super happy with my 2021. I've also driven my Nissan Leaf since 2013 with zero shop visits outside of tire shops. A negative comparison on reliability with ICE just does not compute to me.

I've also driven my Nissan Leaf since 2013 with zero shop visits outside of tire shops. Wah. That is crazy. The total cost of ownership for that car must be incredibly low. Think about what that means for the future of all auto mechanics. Will there be far fewer? Anecdote about a Nissan Leaf: I'll never forget being on holiday in Sri Lanka, walking through a tiny, countryside village. I was on my way to see a Buddhis…

> Think about what that means for the future of all auto mechanics. Will there be far fewer?

In the long run, yes.

If EV conversion becomes a major thing (which could happen if tax credits applied to conversions and if simple, cheap bolt-in kits ever hit the market) then auto mechanics might be quite busy for the next decade or two converting part of the existing ICE fleet to EV.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#604

Post by bryanlarsen »

itsoktocry wrote: post #578
gitfan86 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Toyota had introduced a model where the glass cannot break and the seats don't take wear and tear. What model is that? Does that model also not require oil changes?

> Does that model also not require oil changes? Ah yes, the $100 annual cost of oil changes. EVs are cheaper to maintain, generally. But the Tesla is a premium vehicle for which no after market parts are available, so there's a significant gap there.

Wear parts like brake calipers and tie rods generally seem to be available on third party aftermarket for Tesla's.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#605

Post by buffington »

ourmandave wrote: post #456
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see people in the service industry picking up a used Tesla, now or in the foreseeable future. Purchase price, you've already touched on. You can't even get a USED Tesla for under $20K. The second problem is charging. Apartments generally have a lack of EV chargers.

You can't even get a USED Tesla for under $20K. And who wants to buy a used Tesla (or any EV) even if the price was competitive? The range degrades with the battery and replacing it costs more than the car is worth.

I bought a used Tesla Model 3. The person I bought it from bought it used as well. I'm the third owner. The battery capacity after 65k miles is 97% of original.

If we naively assume that every 21k miles driven drops 1% of capacity, then after another 1 million miles I'll be at 50% capacity. That'd still give me 4x the range I need on a daily basis.

Even if the rate of degradation were 2-3x my estimates, the battery in my car is more likely to allow my car to drive further than even the most babied, well taken care of, internal combustion engine ever could.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#606

Post by buffington »

itsoktocry wrote: post #578
gitfan86 wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know Toyota had introduced a model where the glass cannot break and the seats don't take wear and tear. What model is that? Does that model also not require oil changes?

> Does that model also not require oil changes? Ah yes, the $100 annual cost of oil changes. EVs are cheaper to maintain, generally. But the Tesla is a premium vehicle for which no after market parts are available, so there's a significant gap there.

How are you maintaining your oil at $100 a year?

I have two ICE vehicles and I change the oil for each myself according to the manufacturers' recommended maintenance schedules. Changing the oil for one car, once, costs $42 for oil and $16 for the filter. The yearly cost for one car with a 7500 mile recommendation is about $116 (two total changes a year typically, though it looks like I did it three times last year for that vehicle).

I've had a Model 3 for 2 years now. Total cost of ownership (excluding insurance and registration fees): $1578. That's ALL costs, including electricity used to charge the battery. The majority of those costs: a set of new tires at $1050.

As far as a lack of after market parts go: what parts would you expect to see on the after market? The things one needs to buy for a Tesla are represented quite well in the after market. Tires, brake pads, cabin air filters - plenty to choose from, and widely available at any auto parts store. Tell me more about this "significant gap" of after market parts.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#607

Post by bdcravens »

andruby wrote: post #372
jmcphers wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I test drove a Tesla and an EV6 and wound up with the EV6. Tesla's got a lot going for them but their lead is quickly evaporating.

I looked at both too, and bought a model Y. What were the deciding factors for you? I liked the Tesla software and easy supercharger access. The model Y also felt more spacious, especially in the trunk. I would summarise it as a much better UX in the model Y.

I cancelled a Model 3 order and went with an EV6. My reasons:

- quality concerns (which possibly are overstated for the average purchase)

- worries over phantom braking

- V2L

- CarPlay

- I was swayed by Elon's politics, but that likely wouldn't have mattered if it had been a slam dunk decision for me.

- Supercharger network is a lesser concern for me, as I own my home. I did do a road trip from Houston to San Diego and back. As far as I could tell, between major cities, EA vs Supercharger coverage was equivalent along the relatively unpopulated stretches of I-10 and I-8

However, given the price differential now vs then, I would likely go for a low mileage used Model 3 now.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#608

Post by singleshot_ »

qup wrote: post #439
mschuster91 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How the fuck is that even road legal?

I've only ever heard of a requirement for 2 mirrors. Those can be on the outside.

Varies by state in the us. Some require two mirrors and one must be outside on the left. Some are similar but on the right. Some states you need two outside if the one inside is blocked.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#609

Post by mypalmike »

jancsika wrote: post #148

Translation: luxury vehicles are the future of car sales. Model Y is 2 times as expensive as a Corolla. Plus you can go and find an older Corolla with 100k+ miles on it and pay perhaps $5k cash for it, then drive it for another 50-100k. I don't see people in the service industry picking up a used Tesla, now or in the foreseeable future.

Where I live, $5k for a used Corolla gets you something with over 200k miles and which needs another $5k (at least) to address deferred maintenance.

Re: Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023

#610

Post by 93po »

kjksf wrote: post #450
mikeryan wrote: post #137

One thing that EV's have an advantage of is the reduced footprint of their drivetrain. The primary bulk of an EV is the massive battery that usually spans the bottom of the car opening up space in the interior or the ubiquitous EV "frunk" this makes for a more spacious interior and the Y takes advantage of this well. That being said it seems that 2023 is the year of the EV, my family is currently in the market for a…

The talking point about Tesla reliability is outdated. Model 3 was one of the most reliable cars in Germany in 2022. "Germany’s ADAC, which is the largest automobile club in Europe, published the results of its latest reliability study, which analyzes vehicle breakdowns and their causes in 2022, and the Tesla Model 3 ranked at the top of the chart." https://insideevs.com/news/667690/tesla-model-3-reliability-...

Tesla reliability is also often conflated with "build quality", and the sources for Tesla's poor build quality differ vastly, but a not-insignificant source of it wasn't objective information but rather surveys. Surveys that specifically ask "How does build quality compare to expectations". Which isn't a fair question because people hold different expectations for Teslas than other cars.
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