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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#601

Post by tantalor »

stuckinhell wrote: post #146

I've noticed some similar in America recently. I've got friends who move 5-6 figure sums for various personal businesses, and their banks have been extra critical of their transactions. One bank got so annoying, that my friend tried to close the account, and couldn't! Lately hearing more and more stories about people getting de-banked, as been making me feel a little nervous. In the cases of the banks and my business…

> tried to close the account, and couldn't

Um, why not?

Did the bank not have the cash on hand?

Were they over some standard limit, like FDIC?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#602

Post by from »

mcv wrote: post #361
roenxi wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a lot like asking for a form of secure end-to-end encryption which law enforcement can monitor server-side. If a government can differentiate between a regular person and someone rich and powerful, neither of them have any privacy. There has to be invasive monitoring of the regular person to ensure they aren't stealthily becoming rich.

I don't see how it is. This isn't about differentiating between rich and poor, nor about monitoring people becoming rich. It's about making sure that the kind of transaction that no normal person would ever do in cash, cannot be done in cash. It targets rich crooks not by identifying them, but by targeting the kind of transaction that only they would ever do.

Are you aware that millions of currency transaction reports and form 8300s are filed in the US every year and that a vanishingly small fraction of those lead to any law enforcement followup? The vast majority of economic activity including cash based economic activity is legitimate. If you want to balance the interests of law enforcement or whatever then just make it required that the transactions are reported but just banning large cash transactions will not stop money laundering and at best will just be another charge to stack on someone convicted of other crimes.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#603

Post by csomar »

1337biz wrote: post #524
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

The hn responses are stunning. It is insane that a pro privacy crowd supports the removal of freedoms, such as cash payments. It is amazing how many hn users appreciate their bank and government to keep track of their purchases and hope more people will become like them - just because they can't imagine buying anything worth 10k. When even HN is in full swing anti cash - and with current inflation rates 10k probably…

The people of HN is now made up of highly paid Software Engineers which have jobs that are 1. "legal", 2. pays taxes+social security and 3. pays to your bank account. Their mother-company might be dodging taxes and doing shady deals but it's providing them with a high standard of living and an easy job to do.

To preserve the status quo, you need more regulation to protect the big companies (even if it looks like it's protecting you from them) and you need to kill anything that it is not inside your circle. (ie: trying to make a $10 transaction with imaginary math token to buy a coffee from your bohemian neighbor? -> 10 years jail!)

It's all way downhill from here. You are welcome. You can also come to South East Asia and you can deal crypto/cash/ewallets. Do work without taxes/social security or any of that shit for various "enterprises" here that are doing real useful shit but do not have the competency (ie: hotels, accounting, some translation guy needed something, etc...) Life is cheaper here, and pay is relatively good, so you'll be able to make it.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#604

Post by llanowarelves »

senko wrote: post #438
dahfizz wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue that people just use their bank account for such large payments these days. Yup, and now they are _forced_ to. Its a single point of failure. One which the government conveniently has control over. I'm surprised the HN crowd isn't grasping this more clearly. Backups are important.

> Its a single point of failure You can have more than one bank account.

Bank accounts as we know them may not exist in the world of CBDCs because they can just be held by the fed directly, which is their design.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#605

Post by bathory »

Aerroon wrote: post #522
pelorat wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. It doesn't affect anyone. No one in Europe uses cash for anything more expensive than maybe 200 euros. Of course in some countries like Sweden and the Netherlands no one uses cash any more at all, and almost all ATM machines have been removed. I believe cash-only places are now outlawed. The reason for this…

And if the banks decide that they don't want to serve someone like you? Then what? Or if the banks all decide to introduce very high fees for transactions?

That too, isn't allowed by European law. :-)

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#606

Post by xyzzyz »

franey wrote: post #600
xyzzyz wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia, but good luck explaining that to someone with war-trauma. Not too long ago we saw the Canadian government freeze bank accounts of people for protesting the Covid measures. Don’t think that it cannot happen in your country.

For people not familiar with Canadian politics, this summary missed some important nuance. Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-fin...

Yes, the people with power to declare stuff illegal can always say that whatever you’re doing is illegal before freezing your bank account. Was your comment meant to reassure me?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#607

Post by Zircom »

b112 wrote: post #487
matt123456789 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that you cannot do any meaningful amount of business if “the system” prevents you from banking, or malfunctions in some way that locks you out. Or more insidiously, if someone in power prevents you from banking because they do not like what you have to say. There is no longer a gray market relief valve. All unbanked business activity is illegal.

The recent trucker protest in Canada, had just this happen. People locked out of their accounts. For protesting!

Blocking domestic and international commerce, and more importantly access for emergency services, goes a little beyond just "protesting" as most people see it, and it also probably isn't protected by whatever right to assemble/protest people have in Canada, if any(?).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#608

Post by EvanAnderson »

Teandw wrote: post #576
jfghi wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern ways of living is more akin to using toilets. Cash isn’t an unnecessary artifact of ancient civilization that impedes progress.

Digitizing cash has moved civilization forward in ways we could never have dreamed of.

Indeed, I can’t imagine that any marketers from the past could have imagined the vast troves of data about consumers that are available to them today.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#609

Post by naniwaduni »

franey wrote: post #600
xyzzyz wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia, but good luck explaining that to someone with war-trauma. Not too long ago we saw the Canadian government freeze bank accounts of people for protesting the Covid measures. Don’t think that it cannot happen in your country.

For people not familiar with Canadian politics, this summary missed some important nuance. Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-fin...

> Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign.

There's certainly ... nuance you're taking for granted in declaring a mix of political protest and political protest illegal.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#610

Post by TheAlchemist »

Teandw wrote: post #185
snovv_crash wrote: post #4

Meanwhile money laundering through slot machines, hairdressers, car washes and other low transaction value covers remain entirely unaffected.

You've been watching too many movies and TV programmes. Things like using car washes to launder money are pretty much a dead thing because it's one of the worst ways to do it.

Do you have any evidence on it ?

I have a friend who owns a laundry business and he was approached by somebody who pretty obviously wanted to buy it to … launder money.

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