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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#601

Post by aljungberg »

dingleberry420 wrote: post #532
martimarkov wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem is that users can be tricked to do it. Used to happen to my parents all the time on Android. They'd install random apps and the website will "guide" them how to install this app by going to settings and enabling "untrusted developers". This is my issue with all these devs screaming at apple. Your customers chose a product for whatever reason. Don't like it? I don't care - respect their choices. It sp…

What happened to personal agency? Let people make mistakes, you don't need to infantilize them.

So many people in this thread seem to be arguing I should not be allowed to choose Apple’s model as it is today, “for my own good”. The article is about explicitly outlawing parts of their model.

How’s that for personal agency and not infantilising me?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#602

Post by justinclift »

caramelcustard wrote: post #503
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Apple was the more profitable platform however, also to develop for, which would imply that anti-competitive practices could deform the market because developers would be forced to bow to Apple since that is where the largest part of their profits would be coming from?

Considering that the definition of "anti competitive practices" is beyond stretched at this point, it's safe to say that those very practices are one of the reasons iOS is profitable for developers: they don't need to worry about piracy as much as they do on Android, because Apple learned the key lessons of phone manufacturers of the past.

> ... one of the reasons iOS is profitable for developers.

Is it profitable for many developers?

Was under the impression that making decent money was possible years ago, but in recent years it's not real profitable for the vast majority of devs.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#603

Post by n8cpdx »

iamtheworstdev wrote: post #496
n8cpdx wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don’t choose iPhone because they want those things, they choose iPhone because they want to be protected from them. Look at the Lumenate app that was just on hacker news yesterday: - Android users are complaining about having to create an account to use it - iOS users just pushed a button and didn’t even have to share their email or make a password - iOS users who subscribe have one place to manage their subsc…

i literally have never chosen an iphone for that reason and no know one who has.

Good for you. Have you considered that you live in a bubble? People buy iPhones because they work better, and end-to-end control of the experience is how Apple does that. If you don’t want a curated experience, there is Android.

Given the browser choice utopia that is Android, it is hard to believe iPhone does any business at all, if hacker news comments are to be taken seriously.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#604

Post by capableweb »

fleddr wrote: post #593

Quite a few are commenting from their own perspective, as a consumer/user of an Apple device, and whether you're happy with it or not. That's not really the point. The emphasis of this legislation first and foremost is on developers. Whom need/deserve a level playing field, instead of having the odds stacked up against them. A return to more open computing should be celebrated, even if it remains to be seen what will…

> And even if you're a die hard fan of closed computing, nothing bad will happen. You'll simply pick Safari, never sideload an app, and pay with Apple Pay. We can coexist.

This is the important point. Just like with decentralized VS centralized debate, starting out with one of them, decides if you can even have the other one.

If you have a decentralized foundation (like HTTP), you can always add centralized entities on top, if that's favorable (like Twitter). But the other way is not true, you can't build decentralized things on a centralized foundation.

If you have open computing on mobile devices, you can always opt-in to just stay within one ecosystem without being hurt by the openness. But the other way around is not true.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#605

Post by s1k3s »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #516
s1k3s wrote: post #89

I can't make up my mind if this is good or bad. On one hand, FAANG has a huge advantage over anyone else on the market, but they did build that product and they did spend their own money to do it. I'd be curious if there are any other occurrences in history of something so big ending up regulated by the government?

I think it is most similar to the Hollywood anti-trust case of 1948[0]. Back then movie theaters were owned by studios, and therefore they would only book movies to their own theaters. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Anti-trust_Case_of_1...

Excellent read. This is why I’m here. Thanks!

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#606

Post by n8cpdx »

fleddr wrote: post #593

Quite a few are commenting from their own perspective, as a consumer/user of an Apple device, and whether you're happy with it or not. That's not really the point. The emphasis of this legislation first and foremost is on developers. Whom need/deserve a level playing field, instead of having the odds stacked up against them. A return to more open computing should be celebrated, even if it remains to be seen what will…

What do you think the ratio of developers to users is?

Coexisting with closed computing is buying an Android, not forcing open the gates with a battering ram.

It’s incredibly naive to think opening the ecosystem won’t lead to abuse and a worse experience for everyone that doesn’t have a niche appreciation for browser engines.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#607

Post by n8cpdx »

capableweb wrote: post #604
fleddr wrote: post #593

Quite a few are commenting from their own perspective, as a consumer/user of an Apple device, and whether you're happy with it or not. That's not really the point. The emphasis of this legislation first and foremost is on developers. Whom need/deserve a level playing field, instead of having the odds stacked up against them. A return to more open computing should be celebrated, even if it remains to be seen what will…

> And even if you're a die hard fan of closed computing, nothing bad will happen. You'll simply pick Safari, never sideload an app, and pay with Apple Pay. We can coexist. This is the important point. Just like with decentralized VS centralized debate, starting out with one of them, decides if you can even have the other one. If you have a decentralized foundation (like HTTP), you can always add centralized entities…

This is naive and assumes that there aren’t bigger, badder actors to deal with - Facebook, Google, and others can and will abuse their position. This will make the iPhone worse for everyone, especially if chrome manages a dominant position and developers can stop supporting safari. It will probably make my Mac worse, too.

I still haven’t heard a single good reason why people who want sideloading can’t just use Android. iPhone isn’t even close to dominant in Europe.

Hands. Off. My. iPhone.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#608

Post by criddell »

gamblor956 wrote: post #598
criddell wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it as easy for a developer to release PS5 software as it is to release iOS software?

That's not relevant to this discussion, because the choice is (a) recreate everything yourself from scratch vs (b) pay monopolistic rates because there are no alternatives. But on that note, a common refrain of iOS developers is what a PITA it is to make apps for iOS given the inferior quality of Apple devtools. Meanwhile, developers generally praise the ease of programming for the PS5.

Of course it's relevant because this discussion is about removing app store restrictions from consumer devices.

You're saying there are lots of places for developers to sell PS5 software but that's irrelevant if you still need Sony's blessing and have to pay Sony some type of fee. From a distribution perspective, PS5 developers are not better off than iOS developers. There's no way, AFAIK, for a developer to release a title on either platform without jumping through hoops.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#609

Post by mappu »

vorpalhex wrote: post #431
laserlight wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is a fair amount? Who decides that and how?

The market, through competition.

The scale of the App Store, or iphone-vs-android in general, or even other markets such as semiconductor lithography - is just so mind-bogglingly massive in scale and cost, that the entire human race only has one or two entrants. It's not currently possible for new entrants to break in at all. Competition is simply non-existent.

If the barriers-to-entry are so high that you can't have real market competition, then regulation is the only option left.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#610

Post by smoldesu »

n8cpdx wrote: post #607
capableweb wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And even if you're a die hard fan of closed computing, nothing bad will happen. You'll simply pick Safari, never sideload an app, and pay with Apple Pay. We can coexist. This is the important point. Just like with decentralized VS centralized debate, starting out with one of them, decides if you can even have the other one. If you have a decentralized foundation (like HTTP), you can always add centralized entities…

This is naive and assumes that there aren’t bigger, badder actors to deal with - Facebook, Google, and others can and will abuse their position. This will make the iPhone worse for everyone, especially if chrome manages a dominant position and developers can stop supporting safari. It will probably make my Mac worse, too. I still haven’t heard a single good reason why people who want sideloading can’t just use Androi…

Google and Facebook are subject to legislation as well. If Apple worked with lawmakers to set good privacy precedents for these companies, then you might have an argument. Instead, all we proved is that private corporations feel no obligation to play nice with their competitors, so now our legislators have to fix it for us.

> Hands. Off. My. iPhone.

You don't own a damn thing. Only Apple (and evidently, governments) makes the choices on "your" iPhone.

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