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Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

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Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#601

Post by ceejayoz »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #594
ceejayoz wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How will you do a family vacation beyond the EV range? Stopping for a meal, bathroom, and stretch break every 300 miles or so? > Who pays to replace the ~$15k battery and when? I'd typically buy a new ICE car before the 400k kilometers cited, as repair costs accelerate, so this isn't really a significant difference.

I can do 900 miles in about 12 hours, at my max. With a 300 mile range, I'd need at least 2 stops that are 4-6 hours, unless if I find a super rapid charger. That turns a sucky 12 hour day with 1-2 hours of stops into a 16 hour trip with probably 1-2 hours of additional stops still. So now I need to power through or get a hotel.

Sure, if you rule out rapid chargers, the math looks worse, but that's a bit like complaining about the availability of gasoline in the early 1900s.

There's already a pretty extensive network of rapid chargers, and it's growing all the time.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#602

Post by fma »

workingon wrote: post #460
fma wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...We've got to go to non-negotiated price..." Who's to say Ford can't "markup" either? To me that's exactly what it is...non-negotiated. If the dealer can sell a Mach-E for $5k above MSRP, Ford is leaving money on the table. Ford can bump up their non-negotiated price just as much. Why not? What are you going to do, go to another dealership and negotiate?

It’s like any other system. A middle man has to take their cut and will increase costs. There is no reason (that I know of) to think the dealership model would ever decrease costs.

A middle man doesn't necessarily increase prices. If you want to letter a package from the east coast to the west coast, do you forgo the USPS stamp simply on principal they are the middle man and thus increases your cost?

I can think of a handful of questions that need to be answered besides just saying "middle man bad".

What's the cost of delivering dozens of vehicles from the plant to a dealership vs delivering one off vehicles to a house? Or the cost of an OEM having their own employees distributed to answer questions on a vehicle. GM has more than 4000 dealerships...would sales decrease because it would be less accessible to customers to see, test drive and service vehicles?

I don't believe the current dealership model of huge lots, tens of employees is efficient. But I'm not so certain an OEM handling everything themselves is optimal.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#603

Post by ThunderSizzle »

ceejayoz wrote: post #601
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can do 900 miles in about 12 hours, at my max. With a 300 mile range, I'd need at least 2 stops that are 4-6 hours, unless if I find a super rapid charger. That turns a sucky 12 hour day with 1-2 hours of stops into a 16 hour trip with probably 1-2 hours of additional stops still. So now I need to power through or get a hotel.

Sure, if you rule out rapid chargers, the math looks worse, but that's a bit like complaining about the availability of gasoline in the early 1900s. There's already a pretty extensive network of rapid chargers, and it's growing all the time.

Can I pull into any charger, pay whatever I need to, for 5-15 minutes and be on my way for another 300+ miles?

My understanding is that you were stuck with the charging network that each manufacturer is making.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#604

Post by philistine »

bitsnbytes wrote: post #588
bombcar wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t realize the whole dealership setup is designed to make the haggler think he got a good deal. The industry is built around capturing people who think they’re pulling a fast one on the dealer.

Very true, but in recent times it has been much easier to try to pay a fair price. That is until covid hit where it became a sellers market. However it looks like we might have another 6more months before it switches back to a buyers market the way things are going. For example when I want to buy a car: I start at Carmax which I know its the highest price i can pay for the car. In history I have always been able to g…

I sincerely hope you're not trying to convince us that what you're descibing is a reasonable experience. Every word you wrote describes true horror!

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#605

Post by mrDmrTmrJ »

wumpus wrote: post #412
spikels wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford reorganized back in March so that their EV business (Model e) is separate from the legacy ICE business (Ford Blue). There was speculation at the time that this was in part free itself of the dealership sales model. The dealers would keep the dying ICE business while the fast growing EV business would start with clean slate. Farley was quoted describing the EV sales model as: > "It's going to be much more efficie…

> Ford reorganized back in March so that their EV business (Model e) is separate from the legacy ICE business (Ford Blue). State legislatures and courts have been smacking down this kind of shenanigan for nearly a century now.

Not sure why you're being downvoted.

Personally, I think theres ~50% chance Ford will have to split into two companies (separate stock ticker etc.) to be allowed to have an EV only, no-dealership, sales model,

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#606

Post by bluGill »

Thorrez wrote: post #597
bluGill wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finance companies have a good idea of what a car will be worth after you are done with it. That is why they limit miles: they know the loss of value from miles and don't want to know lose money. Their goal is when the lease ends and you turn the car in the dealer pays the entire remaining balance and sells it as a used car. Dealers make more money from selling used cars than new (everyone knows what they pay for cars…

How does sales tax fit in? If you buy the car, you have to pay sales tax on the whole thing right? I don't think that happens on a lease. And when you sell it, that buyer has to pay sales tax too right? And if that buyer is a dealer, then the next real customer has to pay sales tax again right? So sales tax reduces the liquidity and efficiency of selling cars, with no negative effect on leasing. This gets worse and w…

different in each state, but in general a lease is a sale for tax purposes. Check with a tax accountant in your state for details if you care.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#607

Post by bitsnbytes »

philistine wrote: post #604
bitsnbytes wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true, but in recent times it has been much easier to try to pay a fair price. That is until covid hit where it became a sellers market. However it looks like we might have another 6more months before it switches back to a buyers market the way things are going. For example when I want to buy a car: I start at Carmax which I know its the highest price i can pay for the car. In history I have always been able to g…

I sincerely hope you're not trying to convince us that what you're descibing is a reasonable experience. Every word you wrote describes true horror!

It certainly is true horror experience and why everyone hates the dealer BS experience. However it was even more painful prior to the carmax of the worlds, where the consumer was in the complete dark about prices all together.

Atleast with the carmax and other fixed price dealers , you know what the worst possible deal is and can typically save 2.5K to 4K by going to a normal dealer. You just have to be willing to play the stupid games with them.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#608

Post by ssharp »

itsoktocry wrote: post #492
ssharp wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a dealership quote me $2600 for a required service package. The price of the parts was $400. It’s a bit of work but the labor was effectively over $366 per hour. I could have had the job done by an independent shop for $1000. When I pushed back, the service manager said he could do it for $1500. I have a recall repair on the car as well so I think my final move is to use that as leverage to push the price down…

> I had a dealership quote me $2600 for a required service package. I don't get it. "Required" by whom? Just say no, negotiate a better price, or take the car elsewhere. > Getting the repair done by the dealer gets you a warranty by the manufacturer, which is the only additional value that I see. No, the warranty exists regardless of where the car is serviced.

It's routine maintenance. My car is required to have its timing belt replaced by 100,000 miles. If the dealer does the work, the manufacturer provides a warranty on the parts. Since a broken belt could destroy the engine, this is a replacement that should be done and it's nice to have the warranty.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#609

Post by fennecfoxy »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #594
ceejayoz wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How will you do a family vacation beyond the EV range? Stopping for a meal, bathroom, and stretch break every 300 miles or so? > Who pays to replace the ~$15k battery and when? I'd typically buy a new ICE car before the 400k kilometers cited, as repair costs accelerate, so this isn't really a significant difference.

I can do 900 miles in about 12 hours, at my max. With a 300 mile range, I'd need at least 2 stops that are 4-6 hours, unless if I find a super rapid charger. That turns a sucky 12 hour day with 1-2 hours of stops into a 16 hour trip with probably 1-2 hours of additional stops still. So now I need to power through or get a hotel.

Ah, one of those. Typically most people are happy to stop for 30-45 minutes every 300 miles of driving.

The only people I know who only stop to refuel and then carry on until they've basically driven 12 hours straight are just trying to flex, it's some masculine thing.

More and more vehicles are getting 100-150kW charging, which definitely pushes a full charge more into the 25-40 minutes range for 80kWh EVs.

I wonder if having smaller cars would help as well, American cars/"trucks" always seem so pointlessly oversized. If the number of single occupant trips in London in things like Minis makes me sad, then I don't even want to think about single occupant trips in F150s in America.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#610

Post by ThunderSizzle »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #609
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can do 900 miles in about 12 hours, at my max. With a 300 mile range, I'd need at least 2 stops that are 4-6 hours, unless if I find a super rapid charger. That turns a sucky 12 hour day with 1-2 hours of stops into a 16 hour trip with probably 1-2 hours of additional stops still. So now I need to power through or get a hotel.

Ah, one of those. Typically most people are happy to stop for 30-45 minutes every 300 miles of driving. The only people I know who only stop to refuel and then carry on until they've basically driven 12 hours straight are just trying to flex, it's some masculine thing. More and more vehicles are getting 100-150kW charging, which definitely pushes a full charge more into the 25-40 minutes range for 80kWh EVs. I wonder…

Wow. You did a fantastic job at attempting to change my mind.

Are you seriously resorting to a manphobic ad hominem attack at someone's masculinity for simply pointing out stopping for 4-6 hours every 4-6 hours of driving obviously doubles trip time, and would require those who are trying to save money on flying, but not wanting to waste a half-week driving to the beach or a vacation spot is obviously because that person is on some sort of bench pressing flex thing?

Perhaps you forget the US is 40x bigger than Great Britain, so obviously what works for the majority of those in Britain (e.g. 300 miles) may not cleanly translate to other countries. I'm not telling you to not get an EV. It might work perfectly for you. But as of yet, all those advocating for it and blaming the problems of the world on ICEs still hasn't addressed the basic concerns many people still have about EVs.

Tell me your a condescending narcissist without telling me your a condescending narcissist again.

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