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Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

mitadmissions.org

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Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#601

Post by charlieyu1 »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #363
opportune wrote: post #211

I am so happy to see this. I went to high school in a bit of a backwater in the US. People don’t really go to selective colleges or care much about applying. It was only doing very well on standardized tests and spending time on the internet looking for info about colleges that led me to believe I could go to one of these places. I got into several and attended one, and I believe it greatly positively changed my life…

> huge slap in the face to social mobility out of the middle class No, it was an intentional move to restrict the number of Asians admitted because despite their best efforts to hide it, prestigious universities' data showed systemic discrimination against Asians in the admissions process (see: SFFA vs Harvard). Removing the SAT removes some of the data that opponents can use to sue them. One of the reasons the UC re…

And this benefit the rich kids who can spend thousands of dollars per year to hire someone to plan a good resume for them

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#602

Post by darth_avocado »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #593
sparrc wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agreed. I could also buy a test prep book on amazon plus get a few others from the school and public libraries for a grand total of $15 spent on test prep. That's a lot cheaper than dedicating my working summer to smarmy volunteer/extra-curricular projects.

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial…

>It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live.

So you're saying only studying and not doing anything else to eventually become a doctor that serves a community in Dallas doesn't demonstrate enough participation in society as much as being able to play a sport?

And don't get me wrong, extra curriculars are important, but the simplistic reduction of immigrants studying hard equates they don't participate in the society is a bit much.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#603

Post by fn-mote »

TrinaryWorksToo wrote: post #108

Buried in the details it says that MIT will be accepting anyone over a (presumably secret) threshold, not using it as a ranking tool as some people might indicate.

I think the parent means "a score above a threshold gets the rest of your application read."

Certainly the article would not support reading "accepting" as "admitting".

"We do not prefer people with perfect scores"

"our research shows students also need [...] the resilience to rebound from its challenges, and the initiative to make use of its resources. That’s why we don’t select students solely on how well they score on the tests, but only consider scores to the extent they help us feel more confident about an applicant’s preparedness ..."

I read this as saying two extremely important traits are:

* resilience

* initiative

Not test scores.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#604

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

jacobr1 wrote: post #573
dangle1 wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate, and I appreciated the doors the PSAT and SAT opened for me. OTOH, I test higher than my actual abilities in my opinion, and that was a relatively unfair advantage the test gave me.

What does testing higher than one's ability actually mean? I'm guessing either you think the test is an imperfect proxy for a different (more important) skill, or otherwise you have imposter syndrome.

There is no exam or test for work-ethic, or (in my case) an inability to refrain from constant yak-shaving.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#605

Post by muh_gradle »

lightup wrote: post #566
gourabmi wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious. How many universities did he apply to ? How many accepts/ rejects from that pool?

He applied to [redacted] State, Rice, UNC, Duke, and U of MN - Twin Cities. Accepted at [redacted] State (they have a formula for everyone). He also got their highest out of state "scholarship" - which is more like a break on out of state tuition - no reciprocity with MN. No word from Duke yet but that probably won't happen either. Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimist…

Your son and I had really similar stats in high school. I also didn't do well in college admissions, but that was mostly due to my poor strategic decisions and affirmative action (I'm Asian). I would really emphasize that transfers are 100% legitimate avenues for him to take. It just requires immediate planning and dedication now.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#606

Post by bombcar »

jacobr1 wrote: post #573
dangle1 wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate, and I appreciated the doors the PSAT and SAT opened for me. OTOH, I test higher than my actual abilities in my opinion, and that was a relatively unfair advantage the test gave me.

What does testing higher than one's ability actually mean? I'm guessing either you think the test is an imperfect proxy for a different (more important) skill, or otherwise you have imposter syndrome.

I will say I'm of decent peer-inteligence (and the test scores put me in the top 1% or higher) but that doesn't account for other aspects of "ability".

I feel my grades more accurately portrayed me as a whole but the test was accurate as to potential if that makes sense.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#607

Post by xanaxagoras »

MiroF wrote: post #523
xanaxagoras wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not here. 100% of MIT admissions should go to pupils who are the most capable of succeeding and who are already the best prepared to succeed before they arrive. Utopia aside, as a society we require elite science and engineering ability. If we don't have it we lose out to another society that doesn't do this incessant navel gazing, simple as that. To whatever extent "starting point" is a problem it should be reme…

If someone has "elite science and engineering" ability and came from a background where they were raised by a family with a household wealth of $5, and someone has a slightly more "elite science and engineering" ability and was raised by a family with a household wealth of $1,000,000, I am not confident that long term the second person will be the greater innovator.

I agree with you completely, and a lot of talent surely goes to waste. I'm not sure what difference you think that makes. If the kid from the poor family isn't well prepared by the time he gets to MIT on day one, all of the natural talent in the world isn't going to change that.

One of two things will happen: He'll fail out; this is common for diversity admits. Or, he may require a remedial curriculum to develop these natural talents he is believed to have, but may not, nobody's really sure yet because he can't demonstrate them as well as the other students from richer households. Either way, a prestigious university is not the proper forum for that.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#608

Post by cheeze »

lightup wrote: post #566
gourabmi wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious. How many universities did he apply to ? How many accepts/ rejects from that pool?

He applied to [redacted] State, Rice, UNC, Duke, and U of MN - Twin Cities. Accepted at [redacted] State (they have a formula for everyone). He also got their highest out of state "scholarship" - which is more like a break on out of state tuition - no reciprocity with MN. No word from Duke yet but that probably won't happen either. Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimist…

> Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimistic life

I'm sorry but this is a bit over dramatic, no?

Your son still got into college. Just didn't get into the specific school he wanted.

I didn't get into the college I wanted either. I'm doing just fine.

Some of the best coworkers I've ever had went to a community college and transferred after a year or two.

I get it, it's okay to be bummed. But you're acting like his life is already over. Set a good example and instill the value that you can overcome barriers and failures in life, it's going to be okay.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#609

Post by ausbah »

lightup wrote: post #553

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall. His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minn…

definitely not over. kicking ass in community college for a year or two and transferring to a much better school with scholarship is a great option for anyone

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#610

Post by pcurve »

peter303 wrote: post #562

MIT grad here. The achievement tests are more of a counter-indicator If you score under 700 on either test, you probably cant handle the coursework. The tests only test a 10th grade level. I likely would not get into MIT this decade this decade with my test score 1480.

While acceptance rates have gotten lower, some of it is due to more people applying.

Average scores are higher because more people are studying for exams than 20 years ago.

But I don't think the course work has necessarily gotten any more difficult.

So while it's true that 1480 wouldn't get you in MIT these days, if the same exact "You" were born amongst the kids applying to college these days, your score would likely be higher.

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