Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

ottawacitizen.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 1001 posts

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#601

Post by mikefallen »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #515
amscanne wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, the devil is in the details. I would agree that the bridge is critical, and that forceful removal was justified. I’m less convinced that Wellington St. is critical, and I would be concerned that only the broadest brushes will be used to determine which accounts will be frozen and why.

It's not just Wellington St, it's Ottawa from the Canal to Bronson, and Somerset to Welligton. On the weekend it's extended all the way up Bank St. A giant no-go zone where businesses and pedestrians aren't safe.

Define unsafe

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#602

Post by rayiner »

sherry-sherry wrote: post #561
thepasswordis wrote: post #513

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.

Abortion is far more serious. Abortion always directly ends a human life. Not getting vaccinated creates at most an indirect increase in the probability of other people getting sick and dying—probably a minuscule fraction of one life. Many decisions we make every day have similar statistical effects—taking an international flight which kills people through pollution, or buying products the production of which creates heavy metal poisoning in third world countries.

What is the incremental increase in covid deaths attributable to one person choosing not to get vaccinated, accounting for the fact that vaccination decreases but doesn’t eliminate the chances of passing on covid? What’s that compared to the incremental deaths caused by other activities?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#603

Post by newsclues »

airmailspecial wrote: post #424
armagon wrote: post #332

> 5:05 p.m. > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” I really feel like there were a number of "resorts" that could've been taken before this "last" one. Engaging in dialogue with the truckers and not inflaming the situation by calling the truckers names are at the…

> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” What was the "first resort"? Trudeau isn't even willing to speak with the protesters. >There is still no indication Trudeau is willing to sit down or speak to convoy participants. He said he doesn’t regret describing those t…

If you always assume you are right any opposition is an excuse to expand your power.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#604

Post by version_five »

mrtksn wrote: post #591
thepasswordis wrote: post #513

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

Quoted post unavailable.

Maybe there is a better place to reply to this sentiment (which I find very difficult to believe is genuine) but threatening people with their livelihoods and their participation in society is just as much "forcing" as threatening with violence. We're a first world country, don't pretend forcing someone means holding a physical gun to their head

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#605

Post by bearjaws »

sul_tasto wrote: post #588
sherry-sherry wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.

It seems to me both pro-choice advocates and Canadian truckers are saying, “Get your laws off my body.” The idea that a person belongs to herself or himself is fundamental to both arguments.

Someones choice to get an abortion doesn't give someone a potentially fatal disease.

Someones choice to not get vaccinated HAS led to significant deaths at this point. Via overloaded health systems, spreading the disease and of course, the much higher likelihood of death for those who are unvaccinated.

Drawing a parallel to abortion is absurd.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#606

Post by nkrisc »

sul_tasto wrote: post #588
sherry-sherry wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.

It seems to me both pro-choice advocates and Canadian truckers are saying, “Get your laws off my body.” The idea that a person belongs to herself or himself is fundamental to both arguments.

The stakes are clearly different. Pregnancy doesn't endanger others. There's very good arguments for mandating vaccines against infectious diseases. I think debating mandated vaccinations with regards to the realistic likelihood of eradicating a disease is a debate that can be had, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. The common good must be weighed against individual liberty. Even here in America, the land of the free, we do it all the time. There are countless things I can not do because it would not be in the best interest of society as a whole. In all Western societies, and many others as well, individual liberties are commonly curtailed for the common good.

I, for one, am honored to give up some liberties so that I may help others.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#607

Post by n_plus_1 »

dblohm7 wrote: post #245
amscanne wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a couple of the decisions from challenges to the rules that I thought were overreaching (for example: the hotel quarantine requirement even for vaccinated Canadians), and the bar held by the judges seemed incredibly low — merely that it was “necessary” for public health. No data needed, the mere assertion is enough. I feel like in the US, states, the federal government and the judiciary tend to be more adversa…

It is moments like this where the differences between Canada and the US are brought into sharper relief.

As a Canadian who used to love their country I now realize that the US is better.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#608

Post by TeeMassive »

JamisonM wrote: post #548
thepasswordis wrote: post #513

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

Their stated demands are the dissolution of the current democratically elected government, they've conducted educational seminars about the dangers of vaccination full of outlandishly false information. Anyone can believe anything they like but none are required to be so credulous as to believe that the protests are simply about vaccine mandates given the large quantity of published evidence that the organizers and p…

Can you back what you say with specific examples and how it represents the general consensus of the movement?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#609

Post by jensensbutton »

ibeckermayer wrote: post #567
jsjsbdkj wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand how public health works? The vaccine does not 100% prevent any infection, it reduces the odds and intensity. Some people cannot be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. You would think computer people would understand "defense in depth". Meanwhile, anti-vaccine people are single-handedly working to revive diseases that were almost eradicated: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/03/2…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#610

Post by koolba »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #546
harryf wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has terrorized women, queer people and people of color on the streets. Seriously? This smells like an attempt to paint the truckers as extreme right. Any quality sources for that claim?

The Nazi flags, the Gadsden flags, the Trump flags, the fact that they're saying racist, sexist, homopobic stuff in the Zello? The fact that their contributions are from right-wing US sources and the extreme right press is giving them publicity? How about the fact that they love Pat King? I've been living in downtown Ottawa for weeks, I've been harassed.

No post body was provided.
Post reply on HN