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Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

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Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#601

Post by adregan »

coldtea wrote: post #588
hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

> I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. Perhaps they have other principles too, not just the free market as the be-all end-all. Not to mention that this isn't the free market operating freely -- it's corporations being told what to do by pressure groups (as opposed to cust…

Are you so sure it’s not due to customers voting with their wallets forcing the change? It’s easier than ever to pick up and leave a streaming service.

I downloaded all my playlists from Spotify and will move to any other streaming service I want to (one which has Neil Young—whom I enjoy).

Who are these “pressure groups?” Are they individual musicians and customers? When do individuals morph into these straw men?

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#602

Post by DeWilde »

hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

> JR sold his catalog of intellectual property

Not entirely correct, it is a licensing deal, with exclusivity to Spotify. JR is still the owner of the IP, however, it can only be distributed through Spotify.

But your point still stands, Spotify chooses what they will distribute, which is okay.

My only gripe, in this whole Spotify/Rogan saga, is with the mainstream media that sees Rogan as a threat to their business model so they try to slander him for miss-information, while being greater purveyors of miss-information themselves.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#603

Post by bwartledorp »

uejfiweun wrote: post #594
hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

I support the right of the company to do what they want, but that doesn't prohibit me from disagreeing with how the exercise that right. I just think their decision to cancel Rogan is ethically and morally wrong, my issue is not with the legality of the move.

So, “canceling” means continuing to afford the canceled party a platform now? I thought you folks were concerned/concern trolling regarding tech deplatforming people wholesale, which is something Spotify has pointedly not done here. If HN flags a single comment I made, am I canceled? What do I do, join Gab for this indignity? Write a polemic about how my rights to use someone else’s platform to share thoughts they don’t want to condone is a grave affront to me, because I have a right to inflict myself on you and you must allow me to do so if you operate technology?

It’s really painful to see people draw moral and ethical lines over episodes of a guy bullshitting into a microphone being removed. It’d be nice if your ire and indignation were directed at an issue that would objectively improve the world, like exploitation of children, food inequality and starvation, the actual horrors of tech instead of the ones you’ve attached to, or anything but the plight a millionaire making yet more millions to talk out loud.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#604

Post by Mikhail_Edoshin »

hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

There were a few Argentine tango orchestras in 1930-40s that were tricked into signing a deal with record companies only, as it turned out, to prevent them from going to a competitor. As a result we don't have any records of these orchestras for the period of the contract, which may be like two years lacunas in their recorded history.

There is something deeply wrong with destroying things that haven't yet reached their natural end or not letting them grow, even if one is legally entitled to.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#605

Post by coldtea »

adregan wrote: post #601
coldtea wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. Perhaps they have other principles too, not just the free market as the be-all end-all. Not to mention that this isn't the free market operating freely -- it's corporations being told what to do by pressure groups (as opposed to cust…

Are you so sure it’s not due to customers voting with their wallets forcing the change? It’s easier than ever to pick up and leave a streaming service. I downloaded all my playlists from Spotify and will move to any other streaming service I want to (one which has Neil Young—whom I enjoy). Who are these “pressure groups?” Are they individual musicians and customers? When do individuals morph into these straw men?

>Are you so sure it’s not due to customers voting with their wallets forcing the change? It’s easier than ever to pick up and leave a streaming service.

I don't think people left Spotify because of Joe Rogan, not in any real numbers anyway (and we can see that next they publish their user statistics). It's a few pundits and musicians making a negative publicity fuss...

>Who are these “pressure groups?” Are they individual musicians and customers? When do individuals morph into these straw men?

You could have written: "I don't believe there are pressure groups involved, just individual musicians and customers". Instead, you opted to insinuate that I disingenuously created some "straw men" (and thus, am not to be trusted, or whatever). How about the principle of charity, and just making your case, instead on shitting on the person you're discussing with?

There were never just some individuals and musicians, but also major media calling for cancelling the show again and again, group petitions such as:

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/covid-misi...

and even White House statements addressing the JR issue.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#607

Post by ComradePhil »

hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

>I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast.

What I don't understand is how this idea comes up every time something like this is discussed. I'm assuming that this does not receive convincing counter-arguments which is why I will attempt to do so here.

Almost everyone who believes in free markets (except maybe a very few libertarian anarchists) belives in regulation of the markets to restrict bad actors or unintended harmful side effects to the market or the people in general.

Being a proponent of free markets does not mean that you support the idea that market participants can break the laws for the sake of the markets. It also does not mean that one believes the existing laws and regulations are correct and sufficient. Everyone understands that it is an organic process where companies will test the regulations and regulatory bodies have to monitor and act on it constantly.

Some of it requires affected people discussing it and making the regulators and market participants know about the bad effects they feel so that something can be done about it, in one way or another.

I can imagine there being regulations forcing these content hosting platforms to not be able to take down content unless it is explicitly breaking the law as long as they are being compensated for it with no price discrimination. Similar regulations already apply to a lot of businesses.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#608

Post by [deleted] »

thebigjewbowski wrote: post #269

I love Joe. I use Spotify exclusively to listen to his podcast. I listen to every episode… I wish there was a way to tell them if it wasn’t for his show I’d never use their app but I suspect they already know that. Unfortunately I think attacks on his having been prescribed ivermectin and his guests like the highly published cardiologist and the guy that contracts with the defense department and has patents related t…

[deleted]

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#609

Post by Hermel »

hnarn wrote: post #466

I don't really understand why anyone who claims to be a proponent of a free market economy has an issue with a private corporation deciding what type of content they want to broadcast. JR sold his catalog of intellectual property (podcast episodes) of his own free will and was paid very well for it: about $100M from what I can gather. What Spotify chooses to do with it is completely up to them, even if they bought it…

Of course they are free to do what they want. But if they do something unethical, like removing content for political reasons, I'm also free to criticize them and for example demand a refund if they lured me into a subscription by claiming I would be able to listen to Joe Rogan.

Also, you are making wild assumptions about the contract between Joe Rogan and Spotify. Maybe there's a clause in there that they will not only license his shows, but also make them available to their users? In that case, removing the episodes would be a breach of contract.

I hope you understand a little better now.

Re: Spotify deletes 70 Joe Rogan episodes

#610

Post by notapenny »

bachmeier wrote: post #238

Predictably, people break out the C-word. Every business decides what they sell and what they don't. Do they also complain about censorship and shout at the manager of a shoe store for not selling books? Spotify decided they don't want to sell those episodes of JR. That's not censorship, it's business, and it's very different than if it's done by the government.

Predictably, people who are fine with censorship try to frame it as just business. A shoe store not selling books is your argument? Really? Spotify didn't decide they don't want to offer those episodes, they decided to do so after media started labelling Rogan as spreading misinformation and accused him of all the popular isms. Music has discretionary labels, removing it because its message is inconvenient to you is a different thing. This is reactionary and a really bad look for Spotify.
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