I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months • Hacker News Board

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#601

Post by BoorishBears » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 8:40 AM UTC

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #571

BoorishBears wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to weaponize laughter is the most comically toxic thing I've ever heard of. If you did it I'd say good on you for showing your true colors and saving them the hassle of finding out later.

"weaponize laughter" is a clever sounding spin on what was said... however... a weapon is something designed to inflict damage. The comment above is about keeping people out who will inflict damage to an organization. Maybe you could call it.. using laughter as a shield

Between this and your other comment:

> The point of interviewing is to make judgements. There is no irony. This judgement is: people who assume the worst of others are toxic to work with.

Whew.

The saving grace here is you're so cavalier about this sort of borderline paranoia and megalomania.

It tells me you won't hide it well, and the shrewd candidates will run for the hills.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#602

Post by khazhoux » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 8:42 AM UTC

prewett wrote: post #541

khazhoux wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter-point (and I'm a manager): Every single team I've managed, I've given the lowest performers a huge benefit of the doubt, and a long timeline for improvement. In some cases, it wound up being a PIP->firing. But more often than not, I wind up trying one thing after another with the lowest performers, because I so much want to believe in them . They're always nice people, but they don't deliver. They say "I'm wo…

As a one-time thing, sure, stack rank is likely to be fairly effective. But what would have happened on your team if you had to get rid of your lowest performer every year?

Would suck, for sure.

In fact, for a couple of quarters, I was asked to name the lowest performer on my team, and then that person got ranked as one of the lowest performers across my manager's org, and it put me in a shitty situation as a manager because the engineer wasn't actually at PIP stage yet (and we didn't ever go to PIP) but it basically soiled their chance of being promoted for however long the other managers will remember seeing that name on the "low performer" list.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#603

Post by AtlasBarfed » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 8:50 AM UTC

cableshaft wrote: post #551

wallscratch wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My biggest gripe is that Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to […] Wouldn’t this be true of almost any other selective interview process?

Nope. My wife just makes sure she knows where her physical portfolio is (basically just print-outs of old proposals she's worked on), spends a couple hours reading up about the company and maybe rehearsing what answers she might give to some common behavioral questions (the cliche ones, like "What's your biggest weakness" type crap), gets her clothes ready, and makes sure she gets enough sleep. This is the night befo…

OK I'm curious, this is computer graphics crap like z-buffers (I would probably say form a binary space partition tree, color all the polygons one color and a default background as black, rasterize the view, and then trace the outline)?

Or is this some trick?

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#604

Post by mavelikara » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:00 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #354

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never used Leetcode, but it keeps coming up here. I've been interviewer a lot lately and I keep trying to find ways to filter out the candidates that care more about interview prep than solving real problems. Is this a nonstandard perspective?

It depends on what kind of people you're trying to hire. If you want button-pushers who will keep their heads down and do exactly what they're told, even if it doesn't make sense or is detrimental to the company, then leetcode is a good way to find those people. If you want actual human beings who are able to think abstractly, critically, and contribute to the team and help the company grow, then look for people who…

> If you want actual human beings who are able to think abstractly, critically, and contribute to the team and help the company grow, then look for people who have been working long enough to know that leetcode is a dead end.

I am very against Leetcode style interviews. I promise every candidate interviewed by the org I lead that they won't be asked academic CS trivia.

But, I don't think what you said here is accurate.

If it were true, these other companies where all the critical thinkers have been flocking to would have displaced the FAANGs.

There are good reasons to dislike Leetcode, but your comment reads like sour grapes to me.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#605

Post by AtlasBarfed » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:00 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #353

pyrale wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine getting fired because your manager is on a leave and their manager sees you as free real estate.

Tells a lot about company politics. Often times I'm left wondering how come capitalism still survives. Actually, writing this down made me think that big companies (like the FAANG mostly are) are quite anti-capitalistic. I'm not sure how to call them, because sure as hell they're not socialist or anything of the sorts, but it's reasonably clear that many of the theoretical capitalistic principles that many of us know…

They are totalitarian. It really is strange, these corporations theoretically battling in a marketplace, but these large orgs with 15 datacenters and IT departments from six mergers are just thrown together into a big hierarchy and the middle management Machiavellis do knife fights over budget.

These companies could make competing internal IT groups and datacenters competing for projects and services in the company.

But companies don't like free markets and competition, every company strives to establish monopoly control. Likewise, middle management doesn't like competition, it clouds their promotion paths.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#606

Post by NotSammyHagar » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:01 AM UTC

mikesabbagh wrote: post #467

autokad wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "My biggest gripe is that Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to memorize arbitrary logic puzzles. It makes me sad for the less privileged candidates who might be working a job while also trying to break into the IT field." I told google that this style of interviewing is discriminatory, especially towards people with families, or other commitments. Never got another call for…

why do you want to work for Amazon and Google when there are so many great companies that would appreciate you every day (and pay you more)

Google and amazon pay pretty well. Please list a few companies that treat you better and pay more.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#607

Post by franczesko » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:06 AM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #546

franczesko wrote: post #146

Ex-Amazon. Lasted 2 years. I'll just repeat the comment I posted the other day: There are only two instances when you're happy at Amazon - when you start and when you quit. Doing the latter was the best decision I made, perhaps, in my entire career. I can honestly tell that those RSUs and bonuses weren't worth it. Avoid at all costs. You've been warned.

I'm curious was it consistently bad for those two years or more of a see-sawing of highs and lows? I ask because two years seems like a long time given the bleakness of your summary. I'm guessing this might also explain why they tend backload the RSUs grants towards the last 2 years of 4 year vesting period?

It was consistently bad. During the first year or so I was motivated and focused on trying to solve the problems of my department. The writings were on the wall everywhere, but it didn't discourage me and I turned a blind eye on many of the issues. I would lie, if I would say that at the time money wasn't a factor.

Most importantly, Amazon's culture is toxic. Poor leadership (shouting and swearing during meetings) leading to bad hires. It's a cut-throat working environment with high staff rotation. I struggled to cope with the fact how people were treated (planned attrition and PIPs). I was working under 5 different managers during this time, being bullied by the last one. HR did nothing, so I voted with my feet. When this occurred, I was close to reaching a 2yr tenure, so it was easy money for me on the table.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#608

Post by SirZimzim » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:09 AM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #335

rzz3 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s problems represent the problems we solve in the real world at all.

That's not the point though. Leetcode can't figure out if you're able to do the work today. I think FAANG believes it can figure out whether they'll be able to train you to do the work.

I view it as a way to apply a somewhat relevant filter to a large pool of candidates. It's something coding related with simple appeals such as scalability which makes every engineer quiver at the knees.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#609

Post by ljm » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:09 AM UTC

FridgeSeal wrote: post #411

ljm wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN Law of Analogical Accuracy: for each attempt at an analogy, an attempt at a more accurate yet more abstract analogy exists in a reply.

If it continues long enough, so we eventually reach a point where the original situation is used as the analogy?

It just goes round in circles for eternity; the never-ending search for the Aptest of Comparisons.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#610

Post by darkwater » Thu, Jan 06, 2022, 9:17 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #458

darkwater wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the rationale behind this? In their ideal world, why do they need it?

It's intended as a simple forcing function against the strong incentives for managers to say that all their reports are performing well. Companies that don't stack rank still have to solve this problem, and while I'm ultimately opposed to stack ranking, it's probably true that the alternatives are more subjective and error prone.

You are being downvoted but your answer makes total sense to me (and I have been the one asking the question). As a manager, probably living in a world of faries and unicorns, I try to push and be objective about my DRs no matter what, and we don't have stack ranks. I hope $DAYJOB never implement them otherwise I'll be looking for another place immediately.