President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#601

Post by pyuser583 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

A lot of Chinas current decision making doesn’t seem too consequentialist. Cracking down on tech companies? Is that supposed to make China a stronger country?

China wants to be a “great power,” but that’s more deontological than consequentialist.

For example, is China’s current naval expansion creating good consequences? An increased GDP? Higher life expectancy? Higher literacy rates?

Not really.

How about the Belt and Road project? Is it increasing GDP?

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#602

Post by pcmoney » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #590

pcmoney wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They machine gunned and steam rolled their own people by the thousands. Used road equipment to make them into a giant “meat pie” (British ambassador’s description) soaked the sea of mangled corpses in gas and lit it on fire. Then they drove over it repeatedly and washes the body parts and ashes down the drain. This is not a two sides issue. It doesn’t matter if the students were radicalized etc. the Chinese Govt murd…

Do you have any evidence to support these claims beyond hearsay from government officials and Western establishment media?

Yes, eye witness accounts. Thousands of families whose children never came home. Widely available photos online. The smoking gun that you aren’t allowed to talk about it.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#603

Post by pphysch » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

pyuser583 wrote: post #599

pphysch wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is substantial evidence that Washington was involved in amplifying misinformation and possibly directing student leaders to escalate the violence. Take student leader Chai Ling, for example [1]. She is on record advocating for bloodshed, yet apparently did not take part in the deadly rioting. Instead, she landed at Princeton and Harvard. The sad truth is that most Americans have no interest in understanding wha…

What is this substantial evidence? A one of the protestors moving to the US isn’t terribly convincing.

I provided some evidence in the Wikipedia link, which links to the primary video source. You should view it!

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#604

Post by pcmoney » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #590

pcmoney wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They machine gunned and steam rolled their own people by the thousands. Used road equipment to make them into a giant “meat pie” (British ambassador’s description) soaked the sea of mangled corpses in gas and lit it on fire. Then they drove over it repeatedly and washes the body parts and ashes down the drain. This is not a two sides issue. It doesn’t matter if the students were radicalized etc. the Chinese Govt murd…

Do you have any evidence to support these claims beyond hearsay from government officials and Western establishment media?

No post body was provided.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#605

Post by pphysch » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

pcmoney wrote: post #602

pphysch wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence to support these claims beyond hearsay from government officials and Western establishment media?

Yes, eye witness accounts. Thousands of families whose children never came home. Widely available photos online. The smoking gun that you aren’t allowed to talk about it.

Sorry, but hearsay is the opposite of a "smoking gun". Give me $1000 and I'll produce a video of an Asian-looking person saying anything you want.

No one is denying that people died that week. There are pictures of it! It's the media spin that requires scrutiny.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#606

Post by pphysch » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

pcmoney wrote: post #604

pphysch wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence to support these claims beyond hearsay from government officials and Western establishment media?

Quoted post unavailable.

Please factually address my arguments rather than resorting to harassment, which is against HN rules.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#607

Post by DFHippie » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

hitpointdrew wrote: post #398

DFHippie wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In America, we discuss and debate and try to incrementally learn from our experience. Well, some do. The anti-CRT brouhaha is a reaction against that. Do you suppose they'll be teaching about the Tulsa Race Massacre in Oklahoma high schools in the near future? ETA I think people were taking me the wrong way. I added "anti-" above. The brouhaha is all the people trying to prevent their kids from hearing anything in…

Omitting something from a curriculum is one thing. Attempting to scrub it from the internet and all of human consciousness is a whole new level of tyranny. If I google "Tulsa Race Massacre" I immediately get results and information. Try searching for "Tiananmen square massacre" in China and see what kind of results you get. One is subjectively more egregious than the other. There isn't even a real comparison here.

Sure. I was just responding to "In America, we discuss and debate and try to incrementally learn from our experience."

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#608

Post by vanusa » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

ivalm wrote: post #596

chernevik wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can't immediately announce punishment without violation of due process. The perpetrators may be known, but even so that has to be formally established before the school can do anything about them. It's unfortunate that there isn't a greater response from the student body in defense of free speech.

Maybe, but again a university is not bound by due process requirements. I do agree that it might be good practice to not violate them. Let’s see if Purdue does eventually act.

We are all ethically bound to abide by the principles of due process in our dealings with others, whether proscribed by law or not.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#609

Post by justicezyx » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #568

justicezyx wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Chinese government pay the tuition for these students? That sounds like too good to be true.

For some of them, yes [0], but even beside that, if you're well off enough, in country that treats dissenters so poorly, to send your child abroad to study at an expensive university, you're likely in favor of the status quo. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Scholarship_Council

Total number of Chinese students about 370k https://fortune.com/2021/08/16/us-universities-international...

Your link shows: The CSC funds approximately 65,000 Chinese students studying abroad in a given year, and the same number of international students in China.[1]

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#610

Post by pcmoney » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #605

pcmoney wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, eye witness accounts. Thousands of families whose children never came home. Widely available photos online. The smoking gun that you aren’t allowed to talk about it.

Sorry, but hearsay is the opposite of a "smoking gun". Give me $1000 and I'll produce a video of an Asian-looking person saying anything you want. No one is denying that people died that week. There are pictures of it! It's the media spin that requires scrutiny.

I have talked to people who saw it. Similar to how we can still talk to holocaust survivors. Maybe they are all lying. But the motive seems unclear and the testimonies are corroborated by others.