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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#601

Post by tootie »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #6

If they do something like this, it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. "The only reason why people would continue to use this product is... if we make it sufficiently difficult to cancel". When signing up for a product, if it uses tactics like this, I assume the product is no good, and even the producers of the product know it...

That's not really it. They want a chance to convince you to stay and/or get feedback on why you're leaving. They can also offer some kind of one-off promotion or something to retain people. Subscriber loyalty is the absolute lifeblood of these kinds of businesses.

I work at a non-profit and we collect recurring payments from people who don't actually get anything tangible in return. The membership are rigidly ethical in all their fundraising and messaging, but they think of "call to cancel" as being a fair practice.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#602

Post by llIIllIIllIIl »

derbOac wrote: post #591
nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

This is one reason I miss one-time credit card numbers. My main credit card used to allow you to generate one-time numbers. You could control the limit on the numbers, how long they would last, you could edit this, and so forth and so on. I loved it because you could give a different unique card number to each site, that would self-destruct after a specified amount of time. It was great for stuff like this because if…

privacy.com

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#603

Post by mrmattyboy »

Reason077 wrote: post #157
kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

Same with the UK subscription craft beer service, beer52.com [1]. Subscribe easily with a few clicks, but they make you call during office hours and endure 10+ minutes on hold to cancel. Sadly in the UK I guess we won't get the benefit of any new EU legislation to address this. [1] https://ibb.co/r4LfK5F

Hah, literally saw the title of the post and came to comments to find beer52 (after dealing with them over a year ago)... must say something about a company.

But I immediately cancelled with card after I tried to cancel the subscription. I misread that and thought I'd cancelled, then got stung with a bill, but they didn't send as they couldn't take payment. So I retried to cancel and realised what had happened... I think the most annoying bit that that you can _try_ to cancel on their site and then, after answering several questions (are you sure if we offer X or Y), several pages later, they tell you that you need to call them (IIRC the wording if you skim read it almost makes it sound like you _have_ unsubscribed.

For a 'hip' beer company, I was surprised at how baroque it seemed.. I refuse to recommend them to ANYONE, even though I actually quite liked the beer.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#604

Post by Spivak »

elwell wrote: post #594
neltnerb wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Can't a company make it so that there's a "cancel contract" method? I am not an Ethereum expert, I just don't understand, to be clear. I'm sure this is far more basic than what you know how to do, but this seems pretty simple to add a "cancel contract" method that seems like it'd meet the requirement to be as easy to cancel as it was to set up. The account status seems like they can at any time just read it off…

I was more so referring to having to support the handing of a napkin to an employee.

You'll probably have to make it so that either party can cancel contracts.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#605

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

JTbane wrote: post #413
onionisafruit wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“What’s easier than making a quick phone call? It’s certainly easier than getting internet access, typing a url into a browser address bar, validating a ssl certificate, establishing an http session, authenticating with your credentials then finding and clicking the cancel button.”

This is the most tone-deaf thing I have read today. Logging in to a website is miles easier than waiting hours in a phone queue.

Don't feel bad. I missed the subtext too.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#606

Post by smoe »

slipheen wrote: post #505
nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

That is unacceptable behavior, and I entirely understand you not wanting to condone it. For people who find themselves in that situation, one practical workaround I've found is using a service like Privacy.com which lets you generate dedicated Visa cards that you can pause or limit charges on

I would love to use privacy.com but I couldn't find any alternatives outside the US. Any suggestions?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#607

Post by ww520 »

derbOac wrote: post #591
nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

This is one reason I miss one-time credit card numbers. My main credit card used to allow you to generate one-time numbers. You could control the limit on the numbers, how long they would last, you could edit this, and so forth and so on. I loved it because you could give a different unique card number to each site, that would self-destruct after a specified amount of time. It was great for stuff like this because if…

Citi and Capitol One have the virtual credit card feature.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#608

Post by brandon272 »

ghostpepper wrote: post #529
strenholme wrote: post #344

Since I live in California, which has a “click to subscribe means you must have click to cancel” regulation, this isn’t an issue for me. After the New York Times published their inaccurate hit piece attacking Scott Alexander and Slate Star Codex/Astral Codex Ten, I was able to cancel online just clicking my way through. I now subscribe to The Wall Street Journal, which looks to be the most neutral newspaper right now…

I eventually opened a case with VISA to get them to stop payment to the Wall Street Journal because every time I called to cancel, I got a message that their call centers were closed due to COVID. As far as I can tell there was literally no way to cancel for several months during 2020. I do enjoy their reporting as a more right-leaning alternative to the New York Times but I have learned my lesson and will never agai…

I called to cancel last year. Then I had to call again a couple months later because I noticed that, despite calling, waiting on hold, requesting to cancel and then being told that my subscription was cancelled, they didn't cancel it, and the charges continued to go through on my card.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#609

Post by VRay »

fuzzer37 wrote: post #474
marcosdumay wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are variations of slavery. "You work or I will make you suffer" is slavery.

> "You work or I will make you suffer" is slavery. All work is slavery.

Amen

I got up late today, so I barely have time to make pancakes and coffee before I have to leave for my day’s slavery.. if I’m late, I’ll have to do the slavery in my underpants at home until the morning meetings are over. Then I’ll drive to my slavery and be stuck there for 5-6 hours, with only lunch and snack breaks. Unless I need to take off early to run errands anyway

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#610

Post by dec0dedab0de »

vinaypai wrote: post #585
daenz wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so they sent my account to a collections agency Important clarification: they sold your account to a collections agency. They made more than what you actually owed them by doing that, which is probably why they did that.

> Important clarification: they sold your account to a collections agency. They made more than what you actually owed them by doing that, which is probably why they did that. Um, no. Collection agencies buy debt at a discount, and make a profit if they manage to collect the full amount. It would make no sense for them to buy debt for more than what is owed.

I think the point is that they didn't actually owe anything.
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