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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#601

Post by scandox »

WalterSear wrote: post #569
nonbirithm wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

This is me. Though I didn't just learn this in my upbringing - I feel like my entire working life has been one of false promises and dehumanization, that has left me unable to enjoy anything. I'm 47 now, have worked at 6 failed startups in a row, and can't face work, or looking for a job. I used to blame social media and hacker news, but I now recognize that too much delayed gratification and overwork have had a much…

> I do a lot of sitting quietly, with my mind almost empty of thought.

This is a totally natural state. There's nothing wrong with it and if you want a change of mind then I suggest you let it happen.

And probably get off social media too.

Re: How to Work Hard

#602

Post by WalterSear »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #577
devchix wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. One summer we rented a beach house, I had delusions of lazing on the beach under a big umbrella, drinks, books, dogs, netflix, music, a endless orgy of entertainment and sunny weather. I went stir-crazy in about half a day, there's only so much lazing about I can do, after 2 movies I thought…

Why sitting through a movie is a bad thing? Have you tried watching some “harder” movies? Maybe you’re just bored with the specific movies you are watching. I for example know that I have a very specific love for sci-fi genre; but unfortunately a lot of sci-fi is basically trash with good CGI and I can’t help myself but think that I am wasting my time when I watch stuff in that comfort zone. However there’s a lot to…

It's a moving target. At first I wouldn't sit through genuinely asinine popular media, like 'Friends'. This is not unhealthy: most of it is shit. But over time, I've found that I can't sit through anything that isn't utterly engaging. My SO used to joke that I 'hated everything' until that started to make me feel bad.

Paying attention to anything that isn't doesn't at least appear to be addressing existential dread has lost all flavour. I'm not sure what the solution is.

Before anyone suggests it, it's clear that I'm dealing with clinical depression, but medical help has been of limited benefit. Therapists don't seem to be familiar with the situation that is being described by posters here, don't have tools to suggest. I suspect that it's not so widespread a phenomenon outside of knowledge work.

Re: How to Work Hard

#603

Post by HWR_14 »

pydry wrote: post #438
magicloop wrote: post #230

"I never took a day off in my twenties" (Bill Gates) quote is a misnomer because what Bill Gates considers a day-off is something where you are just lying around doing nothing, such as lying on the beach. A two week sojourn into a set of books that interested him were not considered "days off". He did such activities yearly. Bill Gates wasn't in the office working a 7 day schedule for his entire 20s. So that is not t…

Bill Gates wants to be the hero of his own story. He's not going to claim that his success was the result of a few bets that paid off in spectacular fashion, strongarming OEMs and mommy being buddies with the CEO of IBM. It's going to be hard work, spectacular insight, old fashioned grit, persistence in the face of adversity, etc. - all the things Hollywood slavishly worships with either a clichéd montage or a poigna…

Whereas Bezos goes the other way. He wants to claim that he was lucky at Amazon, not that he foresaw the chokehold he would be able to put suppliers in, built a company that encouraged people to burn out and ruthlessly pushed employees and partners.

There's always a blend of work, intelligence and luck that goes into success, so it's nice to have anyone emphasizing luck. But it's definitely supposed to distract from how he kept long term deferring returns on investment to go all tentacley into every business line.

(I should point out that however hard he pushed his employees, he seems to compensate them for it. If you worked in one of his warehouses from the jump his RSU-distributions would have netted you enough for a downpayment.)

Re: How to Work Hard

#604

Post by ceilingcorner »

bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

Your comment about VCs makes no sense. If a VC wants you to work hard because that’s how a VC gets rich, that means that working hard leads to building a successful company. If it were purely luck, why would the VC care if you worked hard or not?

Re: How to Work Hard

#605

Post by WalterSear »

scandox wrote: post #601
WalterSear wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is me. Though I didn't just learn this in my upbringing - I feel like my entire working life has been one of false promises and dehumanization, that has left me unable to enjoy anything. I'm 47 now, have worked at 6 failed startups in a row, and can't face work, or looking for a job. I used to blame social media and hacker news, but I now recognize that too much delayed gratification and overwork have had a much…

> I do a lot of sitting quietly, with my mind almost empty of thought. This is a totally natural state. There's nothing wrong with it and if you want a change of mind then I suggest you let it happen. And probably get off social media too.

It's not. It's anhedonia. It feeds on itself. It makes things worse over time.

Mindfulness is overprescribed. Having practiced meditation for quite a few years in the past, I'm convinced that it's not good for people that are prone to anhedonic depression.

Re: How to Work Hard

#606

Post by umvi »

It's one thing to learn how to work hard on tasks you love to do.

It's quite another to learn how to work hard on tasks you hate to do (but still need to be done). I suspect a lot of people that "work hard" programming would not be able to work hard doing manual labor (i.e. digging sprinkler trenches or painting a fence in the hot sun) and would quickly rationalize hiring someone else to do it for them.

Re: How to Work Hard

#607

Post by romesmoke »

pdimitar wrote: post #595
WalterSear wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is me. Though I didn't just learn this in my upbringing - I feel like my entire working life has been one of false promises and dehumanization, that has left me unable to enjoy anything. I'm 47 now, have worked at 6 failed startups in a row, and can't face work, or looking for a job. I used to blame social media and hacker news, but I now recognize that too much delayed gratification and overwork have had a much…

At 41 y/o I am going mostly through the same. Without my wife I would have become a completely numb robot. But even if you don't have a good partner -- or friends, or your older family -- to turn to, I'd recommend the following: Engage in interviews but be upfront: you're not looking to prove yourself, you are not interested in stocks / futures / options / whatever, you're not scared of tough work but you're also loo…

This is the best piece of information I have come across this year.

From the depths of my heart, thank you.

Re: How to Work Hard

#608

Post by catwind7 »

nonbirithm wrote: post #414
helen___keller wrote: post #162

When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dre…

I feel the same. I can hardly sit through an entire two-hour movie or play a video game without feeling like I should be doing something else. I cannot feel good about myself if I cannot sense that I'm making progress learning a skill, and am stuck for hours looking down at a blank page as a result. But what's dangerous for me is that this alarm system does not trigger consistently. I might spend too much time on HN,…

I can relate to a lot of this. One thing I learned about myself recently is that I tend to default to programming because it practically guarantees that I'll feel good (dopamine from making things work, fixing bugs). Since I don't have many other hobbies that guarantee similar reward, there's not much of an incentive for me to do anything different whenever I'm feeling antsy about sitting around and not feeling productive.

one thing I've been doing with the help of some therapy recently that's somewhat helping is scheduling time (1 hour) to NOT program. No expectation of actually doing anything and accepting any uneasy feelings that arise. Just making sure that I make the time to tune in to feelings / thoughts without the option of picking up my computer as a sort of pacifier.

first time I did this, I just sat nervously for 30 minutes until I got bored and then looked for problems around my house to fix (which took 2 hours and was pretty satisfying). After a few rounds of this I noticed myself acting on small, non-programming interests outside my scheduled times.

just figured I shared in case others are feeling same and want something to try :)

Re: How to Work Hard

#609

Post by mdoms »

Every person I've ever met who claims to be one of these hard workers who puts in 70 hours a week and never takes time off always seem to be taking mid-week holidays to Bali, golfing on sunny Tuesday afternoons etc. It's all a big show.

Re: How to Work Hard

#610

Post by tomtheelder »

tobltobs wrote: post #592
Nursie wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an outdated view, computer games are a cultural vehicle like others. They can even connect you with a rich tapestry of human life.

Computer games are build to make you addicted and waste your time and money. "They can even connect you with a rich tapestry of human life." Tapestry of human life? Seriously?

That's a _ridiculously_ reductive view of what games are. Like any form of media they range wildly from simplistic and addictive to rich and artistic and everything in between. Suggesting that all games are built to addict and waste time/money belies an utter lack of understanding of the landscape of games.
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