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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#601

Post by tomjen3 »

jonplackett wrote: post #424
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

I just made this website to show you how really, really small the risks are for the AstraZeneca vaccine which also has this ‘issue’. It compares the risks of dying from a blood clot after the AZ vaccine (about 1 in a million) to the risks we happily take every single day. http://whatoneinamillionmeans.com If you're not willing to take 1 in a million chances, it's gonna be pretty hard for you to get out of bed today

The only relevant question is is my chances better with covid than with the vacine?

Of course the real answer is to get more phizer and then stop using second rate shit.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#602

Post by tombert »

temp667 wrote: post #350
tombert wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, it’s closer to 4 in 200 [1] Second, there’s evidence that even if people don’t die, there can be long term neurological effects [2]. Third, even if we accept your number, 1 in 200 would still be 1.5 million Americans dead, not even considering the rest of the world. I am personally not comfortable doing nothing to stop that number. I agree that being super worried about a 1 in a million blood clot might be sho…

This is absolute and total BS. 2% death rate? Who comes up with this total garbage? You have 100M infected in US as the estimate. A 2% death rate is 2M deaths from COVID alone. I've not seen anything like that as credible death rates - it's at least half if not a quarter of this rate - more like 0.5% or less. Do the same thing in countries with 70% infected rates - if fatality was really 2%+ death counts would be ins…

> Who comes up with this total garbage?

Johns Hopkins University. I don't feel like that's typically considered a bad source. Maybe it's a bit high or they're looking at different data sets.

But again, and I cannot overstate this enough, even if I accept the 0.5% number, that's still a lot of deaths, about 1.5 million if everyone in the US gets it.

According to the NYTimes [1], there's been about half a million deaths from COVID. If your provided number of 100M infected people is correct, then that would be consistent with 1.5M dying if everyone gets infected (US population ~= 3 * 100M, 3 * 500,000 = 1.5M).

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-c...

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#604

Post by [deleted] »

doikor wrote: post #430
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

The problem isn't 7 out of 7 million odds. It is that it is an unknown side effect that did not come up in the original studies. We have approved vaccines with worse side effects before. The difference is that we knew what those side effects were and weighed the risk vs reward and made the call to use it.

[deleted]

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#605

Post by williesleg »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

You've got those numbers wrong.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#606

Post by jonplackett »

tomjen3 wrote: post #601
jonplackett wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just made this website to show you how really, really small the risks are for the AstraZeneca vaccine which also has this ‘issue’. It compares the risks of dying from a blood clot after the AZ vaccine (about 1 in a million) to the risks we happily take every single day. http://whatoneinamillionmeans.com If you're not willing to take 1 in a million chances, it's gonna be pretty hard for you to get out of bed today

The only relevant question is is my chances better with covid than with the vacine? Of course the real answer is to get more phizer and then stop using second rate shit.

I think there is another relevant part to it. I’m probably on the cusp of risk between Covid and vaccine at 39. But getting the vaccine stops it spreading and protects other people and will generally help the would and country get back to normal. So I’ll get the vaccine as soon as it’s offered to me.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#607

Post by t_sawyer »

hedora wrote: post #269
bilbo0s wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you have the logistical challenges of shipping 2 vaccines to some small town. One for the men, another for the women. Additionally, that town needs the not insubstantial refrigeration capabilities anyway. So what’s the point if you’re a public health admin? Just get the moderna or Pfizer and save yourself and your staff a lot of headache. The logistical benefits of J&J mean that it’s only logistically beneficial…

Better to write the town off to the pandemic. I mean, we’re in the middle of a fourth surge, so realistically, double digit percentages of the town are likely to get covid if we delay even a few weeks, but 10% of 0.5% the population dying from covid and increased spreading of the new variants are reasonable prices to pay to avoid 1 in a million side effects. We can make a statue for the people that die in the followi…

You think 10% of a towns population will die from COVID in a couple weeks?

Has that percentage of people in any county in the USA actually died from COVID in over a year?

Florida who has been pretty laissez-faire about COVID has 5,980 deaths in Miami-Dade County (their highest amount of deaths in a county). 2.717M population in 2019.

0.22% of their population.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#608

Post by atleta »

It's a very interesting dilemma indeed. Obviously, if it's 7 out of 7 millions, then pausing it for the duration of the investigation does way more harm than good, given how many infections happen these days.

On the other hand this extra cautiousness shows how robust the safety of the system is: even minor glitches get caught and examined which practically pretty much rules out that there are side effects of orders of magnitudes more likely that we don't realize. And that may indeed worth it overall. Though in practice it would still make more sense if they continued until it reached a higher threshold (if it is ever to reach it).

Unfortunately, while this should be seen as very reassuring WRT the safety and the level of trust we can have in the vaccines, fear is irrational and for some people it proves that the vaccines are not safe.

E.g. here in Hungary, we have the EMA licensed vaccines (same as the FDA licensed ones) and also a Chinese (Sinopharm) and a Russian (Sputnik-V), with a permission from the Hungarian authorities. Now when the blood clotting issue emerged with AstraZeneca, some started to say "see, that's how much the EMA license is worth. BUT the Sputnik-V is good because you never heard about such issues with it". Which is, needless to say, completely upside down. (Not suggesting that the Sputnik does have the same problem, though I wouldn't be surprised, since it's the same technology as the AZ and the J&J. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if all vaccines had the same issue as the virus itself causes clotting.)

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#609

Post by scienceOverFear »

joelfolksy wrote: post #304
hn8788 wrote: post #91

So this past year the government has been willing to let unemployment, suicides and drug overdoses jump due to isolation and loneliness caused by lockdowns, child abuse to skyrocket and mental health to plumment due to schools being kept closed, all because we needed to stop covid at any cost. Now one person dies out of almost 7 million who received the vaccine, and we need to stop administering the J&J vaccine "out…

Suicides decreased in 2020, btw: https://www.axios.com/suicide-decreased-in-2020-pandemmic-me... .

Like the article mentioned, there may be long term effects we can't foresee.

Seeing the chaos in the economy and current real estate prices make me concerned that anyone without a home/mortgage in 2020 will be permanently lower class and renting due to inflation.

Free government money for a year is like eating candy. The stomach ache has yet to come.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#610

Post by blitz_skull »

thelean12 wrote: post #593
AndrewBissell wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2012 if someone decided against their doctor's advice not to take an opioid which the FDA had greenlit as safe in far too many cases, would you call that "blind leading the blind"? Iatrogenesis rivals strokes as a cause of death. Most doctors are just slavishly following official doctrines from authorities, and sometimes those authorities get it wrong. We don't even have to look to the Before Covid Times to see ex…

> sometimes those authorities get it wrong Yes. That's correct. That doesn't change what I said. Answer me this: why do you think unqualified individuals are better suited to get it right? Just because there are examples in the past of people who went against the recommendations who ended up being right, doesn't mean you should take everything else into your own hands. Unless, of course, it's literally your job.

It’s not a question of getting it right, really. I haven’t heard a single uneducated opinion say, “You should not get it because X”. I’ve seen several say, “I will not get it because X”

It’s a subtle, but IMO important distinction. If people wanna rationalize not getting the shot based on their own misunderstanding of the science, that’s fine. That’s okay.

We don’t need universal understanding here for the vaccine to do it’s thing. Let those who want to get it, get it. And those who don’t, to not get it.

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