Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#601

Post by kr99x » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

davesque wrote: post #567

kr99x wrote: post #319

I've been having this argument more and more lately. People keep coming around to "surely, we must prevent *THIS* content?" and every time the answer is no. Somehow, we seem to be forgetting how free speech benefits us all , but only when it is categorically FREE and there are not exceptions "just this one time" Why just the other day, I had friends blow up on me for daring to suggest that a particular type of bigote…

> Somehow, we seem to be forgetting how free speech benefits us all In normal times, I would agree. Philosophies and ideals like this effectively discourage people from taking action. That makes a lot of sense during times of peace when our asses aren't actively on the line. However, these are not normal times. We are facing a threat that might just overwhelm our society and rob us of our way of life. We must act now…

So you're okay giving someone else the power to declare something "a threat" and sacrificing your rights to neutralize it? China is perfectly happy to declare all kinds of opinions threats to their way of life and disallow them from being spread. What's different?

You are not thinking it through. An imperfect analogy to help make the point: You can't put a backdoor in encryption "just for the good guys" because there's no way to prevent that backdoor being used by other actors. Similarly, you can't put restrictions on speech "just for the really bad things" because there's no way to prevent things being labeled as "really bad things"!

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#602

Post by razius » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #579

razius wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of political governance doesn't take kindly to any opposing views and doesn't tolerate debates?

Authoritarianism in general. However, the paradox of tolerance fully applies.

Eg. The nazis could argue to themselves that they are just getting rid of the intolerant.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#603

Post by jakelazaroff » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:52 PM UTC

CyberRabbi wrote: post #499

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

Were you scared of the women’s March murdering you after they “stormed” the capitol? https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064?s=20

This is like hearing someone at a bank saying they were scared a masked robber was going to murder them, and responding “were you scared of the customer who came in before them murdering you too?”

The terrorists who stormed the capital on Wednesday have a history of violence and connections to various far right extremist and terrorist groups. They came carrying weapons, zip ties and bombs. Don’t pretend there’s no difference between the two groups.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#604

Post by pnw_hazor » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

_jal wrote: post #258

jakearmitage wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it OK to silence people now?

Imagine a situation where people are credibly planning an armed assault on, say, Citibank, in public forums. Do you believe it is OK to disrupt their planning? Do you believe it becomes not-OK if the target of the domestic terror is the seat of our government?

Arrest the conspirators and thank them for their candor.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#605

Post by gfodor » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

Covzire wrote: post #575

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

I don't read or follow thedonald.win, but I share your general feelings of apprehension for the well being of anyone who consumes CNN, MSNBC or NYT hoping to be accurately informed.

One indisputable lesson of these last few years (which was probably always true, and known by some) is that people largely seem to be able to recognize propaganda from people they disagree with but by and large are very poor at using that to better see the propaganda they are accepting for themselves.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#606

Post by commandlinefan » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #17

Exuma wrote: post #6

What else is new, censorship is OK as long as only one side is doing it.

No one is being censored. You’re perfectly welcome to go on 4chan or breitbart or parler or even other subreddits or just build a new platform. No one is entitled to use other people’s resources and effort to have their views amplified without moderation by those people offering that service. Edit: every time I post a comment like this here I get downvoted. I’m not complaining, downvote away. But I have to wonder if…

> go on 4chan or breitbart or parler or even other subreddits or just build a new platform

Only because the cancel mob hasn't also figured a way to shut down those sites and prohibit you from building a platform of your own.

Yet.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#607

Post by JasonFruit » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

lanfeust6 wrote: post #599

JasonFruit wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bulk of the right wing doesn't, either. Your bubble is showing. If the right wing weren't so frequently excised from the public sphere, it might be easier for you to see the saner parts of it — but the private censorship we've been seeing cuts with a blunt scalpel. I think it's better to expose the worst of it to public contempt, rather than isolate them and let them fester together.

> The bulk of the right wing doesn't Look at the parent I responded to. This is a question of extremes, not mere left/right spheres. The far right / alt-right is fascist, racist and violent by definition: that's what makes them far-right. No one said being a conservative is violent.

I think that's a tendentious and not particularly useful definition of far-right. But you're right that in context, your statement makes more sense.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#608

Post by himujjal » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

Tokkemon wrote: post #485

umvi wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By definition it is not. Only governments can censor What if we live in a WALL-E type world where corporations are so large and powerful they effectively govern society?

But they don't.

Heard of the patriot act?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#609

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

davesque wrote: post #567

kr99x wrote: post #319

I've been having this argument more and more lately. People keep coming around to "surely, we must prevent *THIS* content?" and every time the answer is no. Somehow, we seem to be forgetting how free speech benefits us all , but only when it is categorically FREE and there are not exceptions "just this one time" Why just the other day, I had friends blow up on me for daring to suggest that a particular type of bigote…

> Somehow, we seem to be forgetting how free speech benefits us all In normal times, I would agree. Philosophies and ideals like this effectively discourage people from taking action. That makes a lot of sense during times of peace when our asses aren't actively on the line. However, these are not normal times. We are facing a threat that might just overwhelm our society and rob us of our way of life. We must act now…

To only adhere to ideals when it's convenient is the same as having no ideals at all.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#610

Post by lamontcg » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:54 PM UTC

thatguy0900 wrote: post #390

BitwiseFool wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever spent time on the leftist "tankie" / "Chapo trap house" kind of subreddits? Or the Gen Zedong groups that glorify the purge of landlords during the communist revolution in China? If we are really going to go after such people wanting to violently overthrow the government we can't be ignoring the left when they do it.

Noone cares anymore about the left rioting

The left wasn't being actively encouraged and incited by the sitting President.