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Voat Is Shutting Down

voat.co

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Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#601

Post by berryjerry »

rchaud wrote: post #532
mtberatwork wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It goes beyond kicking someone out of the bar to not allowing someone to open a bar. This analogy doesn't work. Anyone can open their own "bars" on the Web. Reddit and Voat are the "bars" here. Voat was created because they were kicked off of Reddit. Voat even mimics Reddit in terms of functionality.

I think he meant open a bar on the same property as the bar that kicked him out, in order to siphon of some of the customers.

Exactly. Here's another comparison. Why should cities build affordable housing? People can just go move into the forests and mountains and build houses themselves. The point is that these entities have become a necessity for doing business.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#602

Post by tpxl »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #514
tpxl wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but this is a choice. When _some_ make this choice to be at the top, _all_ must make this choice to be at the top. At that point it's a roulette of who will dare take the most drugs and live to win. > I see no reason why not to give them all the opportunities. Some are way more harmful than others, and we should take that into account. EDIT: > I know but since it looks like the gender is becoming a mater of ch…

> When _some_ make this choice to be at the top, _all_ must make this choice to be at the top. At that point it's a roulette of who will dare take the most drugs and live to win. This is exactly what happens in sport today. Some made the choice to make it all of their life and train from dusk to dawn, eat some kind of protein powders that bring in the exact amount of nutriments etc. The others must do the same to bea…

> I really see no difference between allowing to have a nutritionist, a personal coach, a bioengineer and access to all kind of legal substances that do not exist in nature and just let it go, grab some popcorn and see.

One of those has a high chance of directly killing you, the others don't, that's my point.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#603

Post by tpxl »

drc500free wrote: post #585
tpxl wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but this is a choice. When _some_ make this choice to be at the top, _all_ must make this choice to be at the top. At that point it's a roulette of who will dare take the most drugs and live to win. > I see no reason why not to give them all the opportunities. Some are way more harmful than others, and we should take that into account. EDIT: > I know but since it looks like the gender is becoming a mater of ch…

It’s interesting how different the perspectives are between actual athletes and some people who have just thought about the issues.

Do elaborate please.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#604

Post by tpxl »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #516
tpxl wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but this is a choice. When _some_ make this choice to be at the top, _all_ must make this choice to be at the top. At that point it's a roulette of who will dare take the most drugs and live to win. > I see no reason why not to give them all the opportunities. Some are way more harmful than others, and we should take that into account. EDIT: > I know but since it looks like the gender is becoming a mater of ch…

> Apart from some radical groups thinking so, gender is not really becoming a choice. Transsexuality, non-binary etc. are facts. They are more or less legalized (it depends on the country) but I think that at some point it is not the genome that is going to decide but a personal choice. I do not want to discuss whether this is good or bad, just the fact that quantitative biological data are not absolute measures anym…

> Transsexuality, non-binary etc. are facts

Yes, facts, but not choices.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#605

Post by totony »

joepie91_ wrote: post #474
totony wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can either: believe people are inherently evil and will support genocide at the first opportunity; or people can be influenced by pointed words from a group intent on manipulating them. It is also possible this was a prevailing thought, or that the environment was encouraging of such thoughts, in that nation at that time; that something caused division, and that the nazi used this as a way to assert power and sp…

> It is also possible this was a prevailing thought, or that the environment was encouraging of such thoughts, in that nation at that time; that something caused division, and that the nazi used this as a way to assert power and spearhead their ideology. Doesn't this exactly confirm the original claim that words do lead to actions and therefore affect people's rights?

Words have the potential to affect action, that is their main purpose. But actions are not caused by words but influenced by them, which imo is a big difference

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#606

Post by rchaud »

sgillen wrote: post #547
rchaud wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, it is. It's the perfect embodiment of "careful what you wish for", which is referencing people's inability to anticipate unintended consequences. Every HN post about Patreon or Youtube banning somebody leads to lengthy treatises about free speech. Well, here's Voat. All free speech, all the time. What's that, bigots have taken over the platform and chased out all the non-bigots? Who could have seen this com…

Well, voat was a community founded and populated by all the people banned or unwelcome by mainstream platforms. I don’t think it follows that Reddit would become as bad a voat if it was “all free speech all the time”.

> I don’t think it follows that Reddit would become as bad a voat if it was “all free speech all the time”.

Do you remember r/uncensored_news, a sub that sprang up in the wake of the Miami Pulse nightclub shooting? Apparently its raison d'etre was to show people "the truth" because r/news moderators were not approving the numerous news posts about it fast enough. Unsurprsingly, that was considered censorship.

It took all of 3 months for that sub to become filled with racist and bigoted misinformation. Reddit's admin policy is very generous. On numerous occasions, they have allowed hate speech communities to grow, right up until the inevitable calls to violence occur. At which point Reddit kills the sub and pretends it never existed.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#607

Post by sellyme »

concordDance wrote: post #374
sellyme wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen people take time to go through your profile and dig out one comment and then label you, just one. That feels like a disgrace. Eh, depends on the comment. I recently saw a particularly erroneous comment about COVID-19, so I checked the poster's comment history to see whether it was worth trying to engage them in good faith, or just post a dry correction for others to see. I then saw this comment posted ear…

Where did you find that comment? My googling is failing me... Also, that comment is interesting because the actual things stated (higher violence, worse economic output, net burden on the state) are literally true and uncontroversial but the way they are phrased and the mere fact they are brought up at all tells an unpleasant story. Unless of course the commentator is just ignorant or uncaring about such implications…

> Where did you find that comment? My googling is failing me...

The comment in question was posted on /r/allmyopinions.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#608

Post by heavyset_go »

eska wrote: post #444
djs070 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you search /r/unpopularopinion or /r/changemyview you’ll find plenty of examples of such topics being discussed.

I challenge you to do it. You'll instantly be shadowbanned by bots from multiple subreddits, people will actively seek out your posts and point out you're an extremist on unrelated topics (again, triggered by bots pointing you out), and people will use your post history against you in arguments unrelated to whatever you said in those posts.

What are you talking about? Here's a search on r/ChangeMyView for topic of trans people and sports[1].

There's more threads than I can count, and people who say that they think trans people should be segregated have their posts gilded multiple times[2]. That last example was from 3 months ago.

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/changemyview/search?q=transgender+s...

[2] https://old.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/itsq7t/cmv_tr...

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#609

Post by totony »

joepie91_ wrote: post #538
totony wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>your argument at best is in bad faith I disagree (although this was a question more than an argument) >Constant dehumanization of people does not eventually lead to physical violence? What it might lead to is irrelevant, the act of speech does not impede anything and a lot of things have the potential to lead to violence, yet legalizing it is arbitrary at best

> the act of speech does not impede anything It absolutely does. It leads to a climate of fear for those affected by it, especially once it becomes widespread.

If it becomes widespread; freedom of speech is irrelevent because the executive power bows down to populism.

I agree with words being able to elicit strong emotional response in people, but I disagree that this should serve as a basis for legislation. I do not think it is a strong enough basis to risk affecting the spread of ideas and discourse.

Re: Voat Is Shutting Down

#610

Post by nicbou »

zemo wrote: post #128
intended wrote: post #82

Crap. The containment board is down. I never thought I would want to create a go fund me for voat . But if it keeps stuff contained in the long run?

is there any evidence to support the idea that having places for hate speech to grow has a quarantine effect, reducing hate speech elsewhere? Studies on the effects of banning hate speech communities suggest that the mechanics don't work that way. For example, when reddit banned /r/fatpeoplehate and other subreddits centered around hate groups, other subreddits did not inherit the hate speech problem, and former hate…

If you spread them among fragmented communities, the "clean" communities remain the louder voice on the internet.
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