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Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

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Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#601

Post by ubercow13 »

the_af wrote: post #76

The technical details are all right (or seem right to me, anyway), but this is too opinionated for my liking. No, you do not need a 4K monitor for software development. Some people might like them, some won't. [edit/clarification: someone rightfully pointed out that nobody will actively dislike a 4K monitor. I was unclear here: I meant "some people won't need them" more than "dislike them"] This sounds like when Jeff…

I think lots of fonts actually look worse on hidpi screens, especially on Windows, probably because these fonts were specifically designed for low resolution screens. And most applications use hard-coded fonts that you can't change. Text is maybe a little easier to read on hidpi screens, but it is less aesthetically pleasing.

Linux can be made to look good in that respect, but the situation for scaling legacy applications is pretty bad.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#602

Post by nvarsj »

ogre_codes wrote: post #574
thomaslord wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello! Person who actively dislikes 4k here. In my experience: 1. No matter what operating system you're on, you'll eventually run into an application that doesn't render in high dpi mode. Depending on the OS that can mean it renders tiny, or that the whole things is super ugly and pixelated (WAY worse than on a native 1080p display) 2. If the 4k screen is on your laptop, good luck ever having a decent experience plu…

> 1. No matter what operating system you're on, you'll eventually run into an application that doesn't render in high dpi mode You lost me right here on line 1. If there are apps on MacOS that can't handle high dpi mode, I haven't run into them as a developer (or doing photo editing, video editing, plus whatever other hobbies I do). Also, I don't have any trouble with plugging my highDPI MacBook into a crappy 1080p d…

> Also, I don't have any trouble with plugging my highDPI MacBook into a crappy 1080p display at work.

Low DPI monitors are pretty much unusable since MacOS dropped subpixel rendering - with fonts being a blurry mess. You can only really use MacOS with high DPI monitors now for all day working. It’s a huge problem for everyone I know who wants to plug their MacBook into a normal DPI display. Not that the subpixel/hinting was ever that good - Linux has always had much better font rendering in my opinion across a wider range of displays.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#603

Post by seanmcdirmid »

megameter wrote: post #576
the_af wrote: post #76

The technical details are all right (or seem right to me, anyway), but this is too opinionated for my liking. No, you do not need a 4K monitor for software development. Some people might like them, some won't. [edit/clarification: someone rightfully pointed out that nobody will actively dislike a 4K monitor. I was unclear here: I meant "some people won't need them" more than "dislike them"] This sounds like when Jeff…

I've worked on a range of setups from dual screens, 120hz to little CRTs and laptop displays, and even a bit of graphing calculator and smartphone coding. My conclusion is that the difference depends mostly on the workflow, and what the workflow changes is mostly how much information you're scanning. If you're scanning tons of text, all the time, across multiple windows, you need a lot of real estate, and in times of…

> There's a reason why developers have voted en-masse to avoid proportional fonts, and it's not because we are nostalgic for typewriters.

This is sad in itself. Proportional fonts are vastly superior to type writer fonts in presenting code. The kerning even makes for better readability even if it comes at the expense of the ability to do ASCII art.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#604

Post by Havoc »

I bought a 4k screen for same programming rationale. Deep regret.

From CRT days I know I can see 60hz but not 75hz. I had stupidly assumed that modern 60hz with freesync would be ok. It's not. Especially @ grey colour for some reason (Asus screen).

The fact that I was coming from a 120hz laptop screen didn't help the situation either.

Anyway...so I'm buying a 144hz 1440p gaming screen next. Screw this resolution game...I need flicker free for my sanity.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#605

Post by Polylactic_acid »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #452
jseliger wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. Configuring my preferred linux environment to work with 4k is either impossible or just super time consuming This seems like a long-standing problem with Linux, rather than a reason to dislike high-res screens.

So far, I've never had an issue with KDE Plasma and 4K@60Hz on linux, once I realized that you can't just use any old HDMI cable: you need DisplayPort or HDMI2

Its a problem if you have a nvidia gpu (forcing you on x11) and have 2 different dpi screens. On AMD/Intel/Nvidia open source drivers it works fine.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#606

Post by Dylan16807 »

SubuSS wrote: post #559
Dylan16807 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some people might like them, [some] won't. By 'like them' are you talking about the full set of tradeoffs, or the raw visuals? Because I'd be very surprised if someone actually disliked how an all-else-equal 4K screen looks, compared to 1080.

At least for me - I had a cheap 4k monitor. Managing the size of fonts / windows on it vs the connected laptop was a pita. Not to mention the display /graphics card overloading and glitching once in a while trying to power everything. So I am still stuck with my regular HD monitor + laptop monitor - which is pretty good.

Well for the hypothetical I'd just have all your screens double in resolution.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#607

Post by Polylactic_acid »

turtlebits wrote: post #259
thomaslord wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello! Person who actively dislikes 4k here. In my experience: 1. No matter what operating system you're on, you'll eventually run into an application that doesn't render in high dpi mode. Depending on the OS that can mean it renders tiny, or that the whole things is super ugly and pixelated (WAY worse than on a native 1080p display) 2. If the 4k screen is on your laptop, good luck ever having a decent experience plu…

OS X handles hidpi perfectly. Never had an app that didn’t display as it should. I do agree with you that 4K under 27” isn’t necessary.

I have a 4k 27" monitor and I have had to run it in 1440p recently because its all my dell xps can manage and its usable but a noticeable downgrade. My 24" 1440p monitor at work looks perfectly fine though.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#608

Post by ajross »

Something's off with the analysis here.

> According to my research among programmers, 43% are still using monitors with pixel per inch density less than 150

OK...

> Let's take Consolas [...] at 14px, which is default in VS Code

A 14 pixel font at 150 DPI is a 6.75 point type size in real world units! Good grief, I can't read that anymore. Frankly I doubt I could have read it in my 20's. I certainly never would have wanted to code in it under any circumstances.

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#609

Post by hyperluz »

I'm typing this from a surface. And I have an iPad Air 3 too. There are people who get eyestrain and headaches from using both devices, due to font rendering system and frequency of lamp oscillating to adjust bright.

I even installed something called Dithering Settings for Intel Graphics and bought/installed a program called Iris on my Surface Pro.

I searched this article for both "eyestrain" and "fatigue" with no results.

I think engineers and nerds should resolve problems regarding ergonomics and eyestrain.

I feel like being cheated by the industry since my first Samsung Syncmaster 3, running at 60 Hz and everyone saying it was safe and that the eye could see no more than 60 Hz (BS!!)

Re: Time to Upgrade Your Monitor

#610

Post by gruez »

tomaskafka wrote: post #530
gruez wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's off by a decade. mainstream support, at least. 10 bit HDR support for AMD cards was introduced with Fiji (2015), and Nvidia was introduced with Maxwell (2014)

2002. I remember this. Matrox was one of major GPU players at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrox_Parhelia

So it looks like it supported 10 bit frame buffers, but not necessarily 10 bit output. A quick search suggests it only supported DVI, which didn't support 10 bit output. In the context of talking about monitors, this essentially means that 10 bit wasn't supported at the time. Otherwise you could claim you have 192 bit color by software rendering at 64 bits per color, but outputting at 8 bits.
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