Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help • Hacker News Board

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#601

Post by aguyfromnb » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

lubesGordi wrote: post #562

Dude, you just got to get the fuck out of Silicon Valley. Tech in general has been raided by finance douches. You need to find a medium sized, profitable company somewhere not in california, new york, or florida, and go work there. You can mentor people and enjoy your life outside work and generally explore tech as you please.

>Tech in general has been raided by finance douches.

My observation is that many "old-school" tech people weren't replaced by finance people, but became them. Silicon Valley today is Wall Street of the 80s. VC Twitter is a meme. The common folk are waking up to this, thankfully.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#602

Post by neuronic » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #552

nicbou wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't make enterprise software. Don't write unit tests. Don't accept pull requests. Simply write software for yourself and have fun doing it. Forget refactoring code into modules, just fucking code I've found a really nice perspective on this recently: An app can be a home-cooked meal [1] It's okay to build things that aren't popular, that don't scale, or that aren't economically viable, for the delight of a few us…

I am in this place. I have been working for months on an app that perhaps a few dozen people might want (in the semantic web space). If I have a few enthusiastic users who provide some feedback, I am good with that.

Enterprise software is often the epitome of being removed from the results and the fruits of your work, it's a prime example of what Marx was talking about.

You can write unit tests and Spring components with 64 character names all day long but by the end of the day you are completely disassociated from your contribution. Rarely is anybody there to thank you, who is grateful you made their life better, or who has some simple joy over what you created. It definitely happens (e.g. a major release) but it's not a regular event. It often doesn't feel like you just made your community a little better by producing something sensible.

I know people who do hobbies like carpentering and they hand out their (amazing) work as gifts. You can see them oozing with fulfillment when they do and going into their hobbyspace is an escape from the world of work-for-a-living.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#603

Post by zentiggr » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

arvinsim wrote: post #385

GuiA wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can have the viewpoint that on average humans were likely happier 30,000 years ago, and that technology was a bad deal for us overall, without advocating that the solution is bombing society back in time.

I don't think technology is the problem. I think the institutions that install or preserve the structures that cause a lot of people misery is the problem.

"We have met the enemy, and they is us!"

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#604

Post by steve_adams_86 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

bearer_token wrote: post #247

Skunkleton wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also like to add that therapy is not just for the mentally ill, and nothing to be ashamed of. Navigating your career, and life in general, is tough and a good therapist can help put it in perspective. I personally went to therapy weekly for about six months to help deal with the impact of burnout on my life. I think I came away from it a more capable person.

I have an odd fear of going to a therapist in the bay area - when all my issues are caused by being yet another bay area stereotype. Do you think therapists get tired of dealing with people who are just unhappy with their job in a bubble?

I felt bad going to a therapist at first — guilty, self conscious, like I must be so self absorbed. I addressed that early on and tried to be constructive but it took time to get over that. One way to look at it is that even if you are unhappy with your job in a bubble, so what? Isn't that something worth addressing and examining to understand better?

Being unhappy for any reason matters. I discovered I was unhappy for much more valid reasons than I ever imagined and taking that leap to therapy was quite life changing. The key thing was that my burnout had legitimate causes that weren't really my fault or a weakness or flaw in myself (at least not that I could easily control), and I learned a huge amount about how I needed to move forward.

I really don't think I would have done it, ever, without therapy.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#605

Post by aclissold » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

beshrkayali wrote: post #590

Lots of comments, not sure if anyone said this already. If you're disillusioned because of the current Orwellian state the world is in (everything tracking you, hard locked in into ecosystems, etc...) Please know that this is not technology, technology has always been and will always be great. It's the business model that fucked us.

Is it the business model, or the people apathetic to its problems?

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#606

Post by eloff » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

fuball63 wrote: post #596

This is just my personal approach to being disillusioned with tech, but I think about it a lot so I thought I'd share. I think one of the most dangerous cliches we are taught when we are young is "do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life". It sets up the expectation that your passion and your job should be tightly coupled, and if they aren't, there's something flawed with you. Having a job where you…

Job progression up the ladder is mostly inferior to lateral progression to a new company. That's partly why people stay such a short time in a role.

You'll get no loyalty, humanity, or recognition from the company. Give them the minimum to keep them happy and keep your job and focus the rest of your energy on something that will benefit you.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#607

Post by jcbrand » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

xil12008 wrote: post #315

xiaolingxiao wrote: post #39

I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…

Everyday I keep reminding myself that I don't really own anything - for every single line of code I am compensated with the money that I could use for whatever purpose. That being said, the illusion of ownership and purpose is fake. You don't really own any thing, and your contribution to the code base only has meaning for the company, but is meaningless for yourself. You just make a deal with the owner of the produc…

> and your contribution to the code base only has meaning for the company, but is meaningless for yourself

An activity can have meaning in and of itself, and it's up to you whether you infuse something with meaning or not.

To me this is one of the themes of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle maintenance".

Concerning valuing code you write for others, do you value finishing a crossword puzzle or a game of cards? Those activities are of no use other than the joy of doing them. Programming can be the same way, and I believe whether it is like that has a lot to do with your inner state and how you approach it, regardless of whether you're doing it for a company or not.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#608

Post by steve_adams_86 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

jlbnjmn wrote: post #290

bearer_token wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an odd fear of going to a therapist in the bay area - when all my issues are caused by being yet another bay area stereotype. Do you think therapists get tired of dealing with people who are just unhappy with their job in a bubble?

Plenty of remote therapists available.

This is a good point. My therapist lives thousands of kilometers away. If you have a good fit, the distance might not matter.

I had one in my city before and he was great too, but he knew a colleague might have more relevant experience. I was doubtful about the distance aspect, but it's been totally fine since day one. It's definitely worth considering.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#609

Post by mvind » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:20 PM UTC

strken wrote: post #591

unclebucknasty wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great point, laced with justified indignation. As a graybeard, I've seen multiple generations of "how to do software" and the most recent are the least fun. A lot of this is driven by the agile approach. It's tailor-made for dev burnout: from the endless tight cycles that force people into an infinite loop of productivity with scant satisfaction that comes with "completion", to all of the tools and philosop…

I don't really care about CI/CD (they just run), Git (better than project_name_final-03 on an unsecured ftp server), or TDD (just cheat and write post hoc tests). What I really hate is filling in form A, which directs you to form B, which you fill in to see whether form C is required. Form B was put in place by a legal team, who don't provide any point of contact, and who are not your friendly local legal team. Becau…

I relate to this so much. At my work I have trying to a create a TABLE in a database for two weeks now. There is now 4 people involved in getting me the proper privileges to create the TABLE. It's weird how trivial things can spin into these horrible processes.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#610

Post by slx26 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

I've seen this again and again: good, honest people trying to do their best in their day to day... but unavoidably, whenever we reach a larger scale scenario, everything breaks. And it's not technology. It's people. You can live happy with a few friends, or many friends, as long as you stay in your small world. Even working on complicated things. But when you start trying to scale up and translate the magic to the big world, it becomes too much, because it's impossible. It's so messy and complex and there are so many parts out of your control, that you can't attempt to care and not end up hurt, to do things right, because no one has such power in a world this complex. The business landscape around technology is terrible... but that's just like any other large-scale landscape. Tech might scale well. What never scales nicely is adding more and more people to ambitious projects. We don't scale well.

So... Do not attempt to align your ambitions with money or the big world. Try to find a job where you can directly see the benefits of your work, and where you only need to think about "the people physically in front of you". Your curiosity is still there, it's only overshadowed by all the other problems you had to face. But they are separate things. It might take a while to see them separately again, but it's possible. You just need to identify this and stop pushing yourself in the directions where they overlap.