A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier • Hacker News Board

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#601

Post by soulofmischief » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:17 AM UTC

iliketosleep wrote: post #548

soulofmischief wrote: post #508

I’ve worked in the fast food industry for 14 years—about half my life Can someone give me an anecdotal example of how this could come to be without some fault in Brown's decision-making process? For starters, I've always heard that commute time is inversely proportional to career mobility. I made it a rule not to work anywhere farther than half an hour away. And that is the absolute maximum which was necessary when I…

The woman in question seems neither comfortable or complacent. She needs the money to pay for her day-to-day expenses and has a long commute. With her type of work experience, it would be difficult to find a more lucrative job. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with her decision making process. She's simply been doing what is necessary to get by under difficult circumstances. I've met some capable an…

The sad truth is that some people simply just start off in a tough situation, work hard, and never get a lucky break.

Your tone implies that I don't understand the disparity of the human condition. I lived my entire life very impoverished and at times homeless. I come from a very abusive household and grew up in a rural area with little prospects. I've never caught a break. I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#602

Post by soulofmischief » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:18 AM UTC

timwaagh wrote: post #583

soulofmischief wrote: post #508

I’ve worked in the fast food industry for 14 years—about half my life Can someone give me an anecdotal example of how this could come to be without some fault in Brown's decision-making process? For starters, I've always heard that commute time is inversely proportional to career mobility. I made it a rule not to work anywhere farther than half an hour away. And that is the absolute maximum which was necessary when I…

She's likely not too bright. Of course there's going to be problems with her decision making process. Can she be blamed for it? Not really, because intelligence is mostly genetic.

How do we increase intelligence over time? Purely mutational, or do you believe it can be passed down epigenetically similarly to weight?

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#603

Post by soulofmischief » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:20 AM UTC

danans wrote: post #578

soulofmischief wrote: post #508

I’ve worked in the fast food industry for 14 years—about half my life Can someone give me an anecdotal example of how this could come to be without some fault in Brown's decision-making process? For starters, I've always heard that commute time is inversely proportional to career mobility. I made it a rule not to work anywhere farther than half an hour away. And that is the absolute maximum which was necessary when I…

> anecdotal example of how this could come to be without some fault in Brown's decision-making process? You've really never made 1 bad decision, or 10, in your life? I have plenty of bad decisions, total screwups even, in my history. Some of them were from being petulant, or naive. Some because I was depressed. Yet I'm a white collar educated professional, I'm part because I made some good decisions, and also because…

I make bad decisions every day. How does that have to do with anything? Ms. Brown has had 14 years to come up with a career trajectory. I don't think she has ever bothered in that time to visit a career consultant after realizing she couldn't figure it out on her own.

Random fluctuations in decision quality average out over time to reveal a smooth function of decision-making prowess.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#604

Post by HenryBemis » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:26 AM UTC

ed_balls wrote: post #597

systemtest wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not from Norway but the Netherlands. If you have a fulltime job at McDonalds, the only way to live on that wage is with heavy subsidies from the government. You will need healthcare subsidy, rent subsidy, social housing, various municipal arrangements and perhaps even go to the "voedselbank" (food bank, free food charity). So while you can live on a McDonalds income, it's only because your fellow citizens are chi…

Rent is the main problem. We are not subsidising McDonalds, we are subsidising landlords. If rent price would stay the same, the minimum wage job wouldn't need subsidies from the state. The problem is that all powerful people own properties and they want to keep prices high. Main voters base also owns properties. It's an unsolvable problem.

> Rent is the main problem

London. The problem is the same in all large cities/capitals. I was listening on a BBC podcast a couple of years back discussing how the "not living where they work" is the main thing holding them back in progressing with their lives as much/fast as they could.

Especially in London, where near the center you can't get a decent studio for less than 1000-1300 pounds per month (just the rent now add council tax, utilities, etc.). The only way to make it is live on a flat with 3-5-7 more people.

There are some "maps vs rent" for London. I assume you can find some for other cities as well.

https://d36tnp772eyphs.cloudfront.net/blogs/1/2018/05/london...

https://static.homesandproperty.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails...

https://www.thrillist.com/lifestyle/london/london-undergroun...

If you see prices below 1k, it's per week.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#605

Post by LandR » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:34 AM UTC

dm319 wrote: post #594

cixter wrote: post #577

Coming from Norway, this article is horrendous. I can never understand the mentality that lies behind all of the arguments most you guys are presenting here - defending the employers shit salary and rights. You guys know that McDonalds manages to run in countries with decent wages as well, right? And that maybe a company with a yearly global profit of over 10 billion dollars might be able to afford giving their emplo…

I'm from the UK and I'm shocked at the discussion going on here. Most people commenting here are in vastly different situations to the person written about - probably both in terms of natural ability as well as education, not to mention actual salary or opportunity. Do we agree as a society we need people to work these jobs? Because if we do, it is not an argument to point out ways an intelligent person can manuveure…

America, a nation of temporarily embarrased millionaires. If you are currently poor, you just aren't working hard enough / smart enough and need to pull yourself up by your boot straps!

Anyone can get ahead, get the American dream! If you're poor, well, you must be lazy or stupid.

“America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?' There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.” -- Vonnegut.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#606

Post by 2rsf » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:35 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #482

ShinTakuya wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low margin businesses fundamentally operate by exploiting low paid workers. What's wrong with making the playing field even by taxing them? The prices of food will go up, but that's okay. We do it here in Australia and nobody is crying over having to pay 12 AUD for McDonald's vs 9 AUD in the US.

> What's wrong with making the playing field even by taxing them? This turns the low paid workers into unemployed workers. I'm fascinated that people honestly think it's better that people make $0/h than $10/h while "exploited".

Its not that simple, higher wages also mean that people spends more, that could actually be significant in places like McDonald's

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#607

Post by eptcyka » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:36 AM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #589

systemtest wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not from Norway but the Netherlands. If you have a fulltime job at McDonalds, the only way to live on that wage is with heavy subsidies from the government. You will need healthcare subsidy, rent subsidy, social housing, various municipal arrangements and perhaps even go to the "voedselbank" (food bank, free food charity). So while you can live on a McDonalds income, it's only because your fellow citizens are chi…

Dutch here, too. While everyone below a certain income gets benefits like healthcare subsidy you can still live okay on a McDonalds salary. If you make €10 an hour you get €1600 a month. And at that level you pay almost no income tax. While not a lot, you don't necessarily need the foodbank or other subsidies than the regular ones to make ends meet.

Just 5 years ago, I would've considered 1600 Euros or the pound equivalent a month to be plenty of money. At the time, I was a student living in the UK. Some years earlier still, whilst back in my native baltic state, that kind of a monthly income would seem super comfortable.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#608

Post by apatters » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:40 AM UTC

distances wrote: post #570

apatters wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is funny that the dog whistle for conservatism these days are the immigrants whom are supposedly taking peoples jobs. You have this backwards. My point wasn't that immigrants are taking American jobs, it was that Americans are giving them these jobs because Americans are being lazy, soft and cheap. The immigrant is not at fault. It seems like you're responding to Fox News talking points, not to me. I would sugge…

> You have this backwards. My point wasn't that immigrants are taking American jobs, it was that Americans are giving them these jobs because Americans are being lazy, soft and cheap. Don't blame the American who doesn't want to do back-breaking work for pennies. It's the same everywhere: for example, Finland imports seasonal berry pickers from Thailand. No sane local wants to work on the rates the market is willing…

To the extent that America is still a representative democracy, Americans are responsible for importing workers who have limited rights and no representation (they can't vote, they can't contact law enforcement for help, etc).

These problems can be solved in other ways. A real world solution probably involves some workers getting paid less than they would like, and some businesses paying higher wages than they want to.

The least moral solution is to develop an illegal underclass and deny them human and political rights. This sort of thing is cancerous for a democracy and bears an unsettling resemblance to one of America's original sins, one which I'm sure I don't need to name directly, but which we knew was wrong from day one, and which we spent a lot of blood and treasure to abolish.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#609

Post by shrimpx » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:47 AM UTC

soulofmischief wrote: post #508

I’ve worked in the fast food industry for 14 years—about half my life Can someone give me an anecdotal example of how this could come to be without some fault in Brown's decision-making process? For starters, I've always heard that commute time is inversely proportional to career mobility. I made it a rule not to work anywhere farther than half an hour away. And that is the absolute maximum which was necessary when I…

Genuinely curious: given that you grew up in abject poverty, how did you end up with a great education? That to me is the crux of this whole issue at hand. Kids who grow up in real abject poverty have negligent parents, go to bad schools early on, get pulled out of school, etc., setting them up for failure beyond their reasonable ability as adults.

Re: A Week in the Life of a McDonald’s Cashier

#610

Post by cixter » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:47 AM UTC

soulofmischief wrote: post #601

iliketosleep wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The woman in question seems neither comfortable or complacent. She needs the money to pay for her day-to-day expenses and has a long commute. With her type of work experience, it would be difficult to find a more lucrative job. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with her decision making process. She's simply been doing what is necessary to get by under difficult circumstances. I've met some capable an…

The sad truth is that some people simply just start off in a tough situation, work hard, and never get a lucky break. Your tone implies that I don't understand the disparity of the human condition. I lived my entire life very impoverished and at times homeless. I come from a very abusive household and grew up in a rural area with little prospects. I've never caught a break. I saw a way out, computers, and I took it.…

But should it really have been that hard for you? Massive creds for managing to pull yourself out, but it seems unfair and petty to wish upon others the same hardship you've had.