Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Richard M. Stallman resigns

fsf.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 1001 posts

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#601

Post by 2_listerine_pls »

Cacti wrote: post #545
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

Do you really need a PR person to know that suggesting underage sex is OK is a risky topic of conversation? Like, come on. This isn’t a subtle mine field here, it’s not rocket science, and any adult, particularly someone as nominally smart as RMS, should be aware that suggesting 14 year old girls (particularly ones with a non-zero probability of being _trafficked_!!) engaging in sex with 60 year old men is a risky fr…

He didn't suggest underage sex was OK.

His crime was being pedantic about the definition of rape around people who can't even differentiate rape from underage sex, which are probably the same people that are interpreting it as Him defending underage sex.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#602

Post by dominotw »

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

I feel out of loop here. Can someone fill me in as to what happened.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#603

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

I was mistaken.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#604

Post by CathedralBorrow »

cies wrote: post #583
scoopertrooper wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy has a long history endorsing pedophillia. Is it so hard to not endorse pedophilla? Can't that just be the one thing everybody agrees on?

See this recent interview with him, he addresses this topic and shows he changed his mind. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/17/richard_stallman_in... > The guy has a long history endorsing pedophillia. This is a big accusation, do you have source to back this up?

As long as you can show you have changed your mind, should nothing you have said before matter?

I agree with the principle of people being able to change their minds and we should accommodate that, but I also have a hard time giving a huge credit when a 66 year old man says that contrary to everything he's written on the subject, he has recently learned that having sex with children is wrong.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#605

Post by lostjohnny »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #591
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

I'm far from certain RMS's only offense was difficulty communicating, but the "evolution" of his statements as they traveled through the media was terrifying to witness. Stallman: > the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Selam G. > [Stallman] says that an enslaved child could, somehow, be “entirely willing”. VICE: > Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is…

There's something we have to accept here, that he could be right.

It could be true.

I'm not saying I agree with him or that I would have said the same things (I'm no Stallman, nobody cares about what I say anyway) but what he said was just the result of logical reasoning

For example if you look at the titles it's easy to dismiss RMS as someone who favours rapists, but in the article he's always quoted in full and the things he said are a bit different

For example quoting the VICE article

> RMS: “it is morally absurd to define ‘rape’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17.”

And he's not entirely wrong.

Rape in rape even in space at the age of 93.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#606

Post by enkid »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #591
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

I'm far from certain RMS's only offense was difficulty communicating, but the "evolution" of his statements as they traveled through the media was terrifying to witness. Stallman: > the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Selam G. > [Stallman] says that an enslaved child could, somehow, be “entirely willing”. VICE: > Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is…

I don't have the context of the original quote, but from what you wrote, none of those are inaccurate. The most common problem with human trafficking is that the trafficcer places the victim in a position where they are or appear to be willing. Normally, they would not be trying to escape every moment they have. The misunderstanding of this is why people don't like the comment.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#607

Post by dexen »

lame88 wrote: post #596
dexen wrote: post #447

Just as much as RMS was right[1], ESR was right[2]. The "cancel culture" is harming the free software movement by practicing human version of Microsoft's EEE[3]. The cancel culture enters the community, establishes interests groups, and starts knocking down prominent contributors. The demands are backed by angry crowds on social media rather than by contributions. It's time for us to defend each other, and to hold co…

Using the term SJW alone destroys the credibility of any substantial claim using it. If you really want to persuade people, find a term that isn’t mainly employed as incendiary jargon of far-right ideology to categorically dismiss anyone left of their viewpoint.

The concern has already been raised by sibling comment[0], so cross-posting my response. Let the last line quoted from article be a reply to you.

>This has nothing to do with 'SJWs'

>I think it's much more likely you're clinging to buzzwords.

The ESR's article[1] you are referencing is so much more than just headline. I encourage you to read it, and try to re-construct the events, the thoughts, and the emotions that led ESR to post a piece that explosive. The comment section alone spans some 760 responses over four years, with people chipping in with their observations from the trenches and with their shattered dreams. While writing, ESR was in communication with several victims of then-recent social media mobs, and conveyed their woes.

The two bits of article that stood out to me:

  >The hacker culture’s norm about inclusion is clear:
  >anybody who can pull the freight is welcome
and

  >We must (...)
  >learn to recognize their thought-stopping jargon and kafkatraps
--

[1] "Why Hackers Must Eject the SJWs", http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6918

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20993761

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#608

Post by dandare »

From Vice.com:

Early in the thread, Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked. Stallman goes on to argue about the definition of “sexual assault,” “rape,” and whether they apply to Minsky and Giuffre’s deposition statement that she was forced to have sex with him.

In response to a student pointing out that Giuffre was 17 when she was forced to have sex with Minsky in the Virgin Islands, Stallman said “it is morally absurd to define ‘rape’ in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17.”

>>Giuffre was 17 at the time; this makes it in the Virgin Islands.

>Does it really? I think it is morally absurd to define "rape" in a way that depends on minor details such as which country it was in or whether the victim was 18 years old or 17'.

>I think the existence of a dispute about that supports my point that the term "sexual assault" is slippery, so we ought to use more concrete terms when accusing anyone.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#609

Post by GVIrish »

mc32 wrote: post #581
anotheryou wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand even with this resignation he doesn't appologize for anything. He could even have made his point of thinking it's a misunderstanding and appologize, but didn't.

Kevin Hart apologized for some offensive jokes, he apologized as advised by the academy, and still got cancelled. Apologizing only serves to augment the conviction of a mob intent on finding fault.

No, initially he refused to apologize, then he withdrew from the hosting gig, then he actually apologized, more than once.

Had he just apologized when the academy first brought up the issue, he could have gone right on with hosting. As it was, he pulled out of the deal because he didn't want to be a distraction.

Post reply on HN