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California Approves Statewide Rent Control

nytimes.com

601–610 of 1001 posts

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where to stand on this issue. I wish everyone could afford basic living spaces, but if they could, there would be way more people, and the planet clearly cannot sustain that.

Preventing renters from living in high density housing will make the number of people on the planet go down?

SF isn't uniquely expensive. Every city with opportunity has a huge premium. It's all for the same reasons.

I'm not sure if I wish they'd go away.

If housing were more affordable, we could easily have 10B people on the planet right now. Most people truly want to have families. They want homes to raise those families. People can't go own reproducing forever. Could we have had 2% population increase over the last 30 years in the US instead of 1%?

Yes, but we'd already be over 10B people. In another 30 years, we'd be at close to 20B. It's not sustainable.

And even if it was, it's not necessarily a better situation. Who's to say that education, health care, food and other basic necessities wouldn't be more scarce and cause the overall cost of living to be even higher? Inequality would almost certainly be much worse.

The Malthusian trap plagued the world since the beginning of mankind. Until the industrial revolution, life for the average person was getting substantially worse over time. Then suddenly, productivity growth outpaced population growth, and we went through -- objectively the best time in human history. This is a time that includes monstrosities like the world wars and the threat of nuclear winter, and it it's BY FAR the best time humanity has ever seen.

Productivity growth is starting to decline. Do I think that making housing more affordable and jump-starting population growth to keep GDP numbers increasing at a steady clip is a good trade off? No.

Cheap housing sounds great. But I don't think it's a miracle pill. There are unintended consequences to everything. I wish we lived in a fantasy Utopia where everyone could be hold hands and be happy all day, but we don't.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#602
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also results in a lot of empty units. I was talking with a real estate agent in SF and he said it’s not unusual for landlords looking to sell their rent controlled building to just let units sit empty. Why? Because it can increase the value of the building by hundreds of thousands of dollars. Losing out on $24k worth of rent each year is easy if you know it comes with an extra $300k in your pocket when you sell.

Which is why vacant property tax makes sense for popular areas

Nothing a good arson won't fix.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#603
post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California building code is really not that different from anywhere else in the US, since almost all states base their code off the IBC. it costs a little more to build in a seismic zone or a high fire risk zone, but that is inevitable. The code does help keep people alive and healthy, and protect against more costly damage than otherwise in case of natural disasters. In California, 25% of a new SFR is land. Another…

Do they require fire suppression systems and solar panels in the rest of the US? I honestly don't know.

Fire suppression is required everywhere AFAIK. Solar is not yet required, but will be next year. So it has had no effect on current Ca housing. That is a stupid rule and should have exemptions for areas that don't receive enough sun due to fog/trees/etc. But solar will still be far, far cheaper than permits and will add value/decrease ownership costs for most homes.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#604
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What in your second paragraph doesn’t apply without rent control? In other words, what makes 7% the magic number? Your entire argument seems based on market forces (if you raise too much, your tenant leaves and if there’s no wealthy people to replace them, you're stuck). How is this not the case without rent control? Do wealthy tenants somehow appear without rent control?

Nothing. The parent comment was arguing that because the law now says that rent couldn't increase by more than 7% they were now being advised to increase rent by that much every year (ostensibly because they are now planning to do this), and my response is that it's absurd to claim that anything in the law will change things so that you could make that sort of increase now if you couldn't already make that increase b…

What has changed with the new rent control law is the risk to the landlord increases, and that means rents rise to pay for the risk.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#605
post #259

I'm a renter in Oregon and I've been outspoken about this long before the laws were passed. From my experience, people who support heavy laws, regulations and taxes don't spend enough time considering potential side effects. They feel like with enough support, they can just force anything they want to happen, while completely disregarding the market. I feel like an amount of the general public just wants Big Daddy go…

I'm a renter in Oregon and I've been outspoken about this long before the laws were passed. From my experience, people who support heavy laws, regulations and taxes don't spend enough time considering potential side effects. They feel like with enough support, they can just force anything they want to happen, while completely disregarding the market.

You know I was neutral on this stuff, studied economics and some business law, have actually read Adam Smith rather than just little excerpts. When I was younger most of the 90s working as a tech in and around the financial sector, so while I don't consider myself an expert I do think I'm quite well informed. I spent about 25 years giving market economics and the investor class the benefit of the doubt.

I've changed my mind.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who the fuck wants to live in a shipping container?

A shipping container is 320 square feet. Two pods can be joined into a single 740 square foot unit. That's a total cost of $80,000. Let's round to $100,000. Assume a rental yield of 12%. $1000 a month for a brand new 740 square foot apartment in the middle of San Francisco. Plus with modern finishes that are frankly much nicer than anything you'll find in the low-end SF rental market. I'd imagine quite a lot of peopl…

Why do you think construction price, and not land price, is the limiting factor?

I'm in a high-demand city in Canada. The house I'm in right now is worth about $70k. The land it sits on is worth $900k. Shipping containers aren't going to help with that.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#607
post #21

I am a landlord in Oregon, but not California. The curious, although ultimately predictable, outcome of the new rent control measure in Oregon is that while I have historically had an arrangement with my property management to be restrained in annual rent increases, they are now advising a default annual increase of the maximum allowed (7 percent before inflation). This is because larger adjustments cannot be made if…

The tendency for government regulation is to subsidize demand (rent control, housing assistance) and restrict supply (zoning, permitting, etc). The side effect is always higher prices.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. Until suppression of building new units stops (by poor, helpless owners), this is the only recourse. I agree wholeheartedly that the real solution is to build more homes but that doesn't appear to be in the cards. So the idea that rent control doesn't actually help lower income people is _completely_ nuts. I know of many people off the top of my head that no-way would still be living in San Francisco…

Rent control is another form of pulling up the bridge behind you.

Except renters aren't accumulators in anything like the same way as investors and don't tend to be the ones agitating against development because they're not invested the property and have no incentive to drive it up by limiting housing stock. Guilting the least financially secure for having any degree of predictability and stability is an emotionally manipulative rather than a substantive argument.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#610
post #164
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly it gets abused. People keep their apartments even though they're not living in them, because otherwise the rent would go up. I know someone who did that for 20 years with an apartment on Russian Hill. She would sublet the place for a year or two and then come back.

Nice negligible anecdote

Your comments in this thread have been breaking the site guidelines. Can you please not do that? It poisons this place and weakens your arguments.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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