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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#601

Post by ryanlol »

stevenicr wrote: post #596

This is one of the most disturbing things I've read this year. Now I definitely do not feel like any of my sites are safe on cloudflare. I would appreciate even more transparency details to be published. When talking about cloudflare following the rule of law - will you all be more specific about which countries and which locales? There are rules in the UK I have read about that people wanted to bust through cloudfla…

>Are you guys also going to pull service for blackhat hacker forums? I've suffered from posts on those as well.

They have done this several times in the past, but don’t talk about it publicly.

>As soon as stormer was removed you changed from being a dumb pipe infrastructure company into one that can eject and censor at will.

So what makes the nazis special to you? Cloudflare had banned many other sites prior to that.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#602

Post by jonathanstrange »

ViViDboarder wrote: post #361
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should that mean a power company can cut off your power because they don't like what you've said? Should that mean the water company can cut your water off for criticizing them? Should that mean that a bank can refuse to give you a loan, because you said something bad, even if your credit is more than acceptable? ------------------------------- Remember this: its the extremist that the law is made around. And soon en…

> Should that mean a power company can cut off your power because they don't like what you've said? No. Because they are a public utility and that would be a violation of the first amendment. > Should that mean that a bank can refuse to give you a loan, because you said something bad, even if your credit is more than acceptable? Yes. Because they are a private institution and not obligated to do business with you. Th…

However, this was a problem when Visa and Paypal cut off donations to Wikileaks. It was actually quite hard for them for a while to get donations in, even though there were plenty of people willing to donate.

Certain banks and their services (e.g. wire transfer), as well as payment providers should be treated like public utilities, especially when they have quasi-monopolies. The same for ISPs in areas in which there is only one or two, and other large companies with quasi-monopolies like Google, Apple and Microsoft. I don't think this applies to companies like Reddit or Cloudflare, though, for which there are easy and widely used substitutes.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#603

Post by AlphaGeekZulu »

stevenicr wrote: post #596

This is one of the most disturbing things I've read this year. Now I definitely do not feel like any of my sites are safe on cloudflare. I would appreciate even more transparency details to be published. When talking about cloudflare following the rule of law - will you all be more specific about which countries and which locales? There are rules in the UK I have read about that people wanted to bust through cloudfla…

"Now I definitely do not feel like any of my sites are safe on cloudflare."

Now I definitely have some idea, what your sites are all about ;-)

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#604

Post by nextmemorandum »

iamnotacrook wrote: post #594
rlonn wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but how can anyone say "what kind" of free speech...? Don't you see that labeling or discriminating between "free speech of type A, allowed" and "free speech of type B, disallowed" defeats the whole notion of "free"? Somehow people tend to think that their own discrimination isn't, while others is.

"Don't you see that labeling or discriminating between "free speech of type A, allowed" and "free speech of type B, disallowed" defeats the whole notion of "free"?" Yeah, why are you allowed to play tennis but you aren't allowed to kill people? Why can you say John's a good person but you can't say he molests children? Why can you shout "fore" on a golf course but not "fire" in a movie theatre? There's always a limit…

>Let me know when it's being used to prevent the discussion of ideas such as Marxism or veganism or solar power or whatever which might upset the current power structure.

Discussion of all of those topics has taken place on cripplechan which MITMflare just terminated business with.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#605

Post by pas »

toomim wrote: post #545
muzani wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A CDN isn't necessary for a large website to keep running either.

It's necessary to protect against DDOS attacks. The CDN has privileged positioning in the network -- close to the consumer ISPs -- and can block incoming DDOS attacks directly before the traffic flows deeper.

8chan can build their own if none are willing to host them. though some ISPs might refuse to peer with them.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#606

Post by raxxorrax »

Really bad on you cloudflare. I did't visit the chans since what feels like a lifetime and probably don't approve of the content at hand (getting worse since 200x...), but that isn't the topic here. Are you dropping Facebook as a customer if you find objectionable content? Probably not.

And while I believe you wouldn't do that randomly to other customers, I won't recommend your sevice again. It is just not your decision to make and pretty much the exact opposite that I require from a service like yours.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#607

Post by Diti »

Seeing a service censoring a morally-bad community makes me feel sad. How is the executive power (police, intelligence) supposed to monitor extremists if they become forced to move to encrypted, censorship-resistant chats outside of the internet?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#608

Post by oikos »

You can't ban language because some use it to lie. The censorship idea has eerie cumulative logic built in. Today we ban a site, tomorrow a race. I'd also like to point out that in the context of declining economies the structures that have ensured democratic processes are inevitably declining with it.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#609

Post by yhamv »

cryptonector wrote: post #563
dangxiaopin wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Cloudflare's logic, ISPs should have stopped peering with Facebook after NZ shooter livestreamed there.

Perhaps only if commenters glorified it? I'm sure you can find people to do that on FB or anywhere else, and it may take time to moderate such commentary. But no one would deplatform FB or Twitter -- they're too big. This approach means we have a powerful dynamic in place to limit the reach of any social media that isn't already "too big to deplatform".

In fact Facebook said they didn't remove the nz shooter livestream because nobody bothered to report it until very late

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#610

Post by kuzehanka »

kelnos wrote: post #582
kuzehanka wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in favour of censorship. Moderation is keeping discussion civil and on-topic, which interestingly enough mostly happens by itself in 'absolute free speech' spaces. What you support is the selective suppression of ideas that you don't like. Don't call it moderation. Call it by its name. Censorship. Cloudflare isn't 'moderating' 8chan. It's deplatforming it and enacting censorship.

> Moderation is keeping discussion civil and on-topic, which interestingly enough mostly happens by itself in 'absolute free speech' spaces. The entire topic of this post -- 8chan -- is a fine counterexample to your idea there.

Ever actually visited 8chan? Most of the boards there keep threads on-topic and at higher snr, than, say, reddit.

Moderation is the process of keeping a board functional and snr high.

Censorship is the process of suppressing certain types of content from the board. In this case legal content.

You can have high quality discussions on less-moderated boards, e.g. any of 4chan's interest boards. And you can have low-quality discussions on highly moderated boards, e.g. all of Reddit default subs.

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