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Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

nytimes.com

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Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#601

Post by chillacy »

Despegar wrote: post #429
skrebbel wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would this work in practice though? Eg Amazon. Bezos is a major shareholder. Imagine splitting AWS from the retail arm, which I guess would be a sensible split point. If Bezos controls both, then what would really change? I'm not critical to the idea nor supportive - I'm just curious to learn more.

Did you read her proposal? There would be a structural separation from distribution and first party goods. Just like railroads couldn't own interests in the commodities they were transporting, Amazon couldn't operate a market place and also own private label brands. https://medium.com/@teamwarren/heres-how-we-can-break-up-big...

That sucks because every company that actually cares enough about its customer experience eventually vertically integrates, and it results in a better experience.

For instance, Apple makes hardware, software, services and they all fit together perfectly. Tesla distributes cars in addition to making them, leading to a better buying experience.

Everything Amazon does is in-line with this principle as well.

Is the end game laws similar to what we have for alcoholic beverages and cars? Where distribution and manufacturing are artificially separated?

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#603

Post by gowld »

cooooooffffeeee wrote: post #419
psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

She's called out Comcast before too — don't jump to the conclusion that someone can't chew gum and walk at the same time without at least a 10 second Google.

Forgive us for taking her campaign speeches at face value. She chose to make FAG the highlight of her campaign, not Comcast.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#604

Post by samlevine »

There's zero net benefit in breaking up large companies that are driving innovation and improving consumer experiences.

If you don't like the economic result, redistribute some of the growth. Walmart doesn't deserve to be saved by splitting up Amazon if they can't compete.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#605

Post by chillacy »

charmides wrote: post #543
Kaveren wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something has a lot of mindshare doesn't mean you have any business silencing their choices. People who don't agree with the policies of private companies like Facebook can simply not use it. Try Gab if you want a private company that is anti-censorship.

It seems like you are just repeating the same specious point that OP was refuting. Right now, it feels like companies like Google are mostly silencing hate speech, violent extremists, and pornography, but there is no guarantee that their censorship will remain that way in the future. In a not-so-hypothetical future where a single private company has taken almost whole control over online media and starts imposing hea…

Presumably if they blocked speech that most people actually wanted to see, they'd leave to one of the billion other messaging tools. You can still say anything you want over email.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#606

Post by gowld »

tolstoy77 wrote: post #523
psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

You don't get it. She's aptly taking advantage of a liberal trend which is negative sentiment to companies causing income stratification in their respective and potential locations. She doesn't really care about the underlying cause. If that was so then your points would be valid. But look at how many news articles got published and how many people are getting excited about the thought. Being against successful techn…

Fascinating. This implies that Facebook, Amazon, Google are hated because they pay their rank and file employees well, instead of senior management and shareholders ahoarding all the wealth like traditional big companies do.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#607

Post by pessimizer »

gnopgnip wrote: post #484
dfxm12 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the point of government to represent the people? Sure, the parent poster is but one person, but on the whole, Americans were in favor of Net Neutrality. Perhaps outright defending FANG is going too far, but the parent definitely has a point that ISP's should be looked into when we're discussing "breaking up" companies.

There are multiple ways to represent the people and their best interests. It is not always the role of the government to do what is most popular. Raising taxes instead of increased deficit spending is an example of something that is often unpopular, but in many cases the objectively better option.

> Raising taxes instead of increased deficit spending is an example of something that is often unpopular, but in many cases the objectively better option.

I don't think that you could get any reasonably representative range of economists in a room to even agree that this is ever a better option, so I think your claim to objectivity is unwarranted.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#608

Post by andrewla »

pedrocr wrote: post #587
andrewla wrote: post #454

Does anyone actually believe that the US government's interventions against Microsoft made the slightest bit of difference, as opposed to huge shifts in the internet and mobile landscape? You could argue that the emergence of Firefox and Chrome was only made possible by the ability to assign a "default" non-IE browser in Windows, but that ability pre-dated any of the anti-trust stuff anyway; all you got out of that w…

In the middle of the process there was an election and the new executive didn't want to actually go after Microsoft. They then got off much easier than their misdeeds required. At one point an OS/Office breakup was in the cards and that would actually have been a major shift in the industry. It's not surprising that what was actually done didn't have that much impact.

My point is not whether government interference was impactful. My point is exactly that it made no difference.

Microsoft lost its position of dominance through purely market ends (in my opinion -- certainly between the US actions and the EU actions you could argue that they made a difference).

In retrospect breaking up MS between Windows and Office was not a necessary condition to breaking MS's monopoly, and so we have an excellent test case for government intervention at that scale. Not definitive, of course; MS could very well be the exception, but certainly the Justice Department's actions against Microsoft should not be used as evidence that such actions are effective.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#609

Post by gowld »

zip1234 wrote: post #472
chrischen wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying Google == email is a bit naive. Google is search, and the internet starts with search. They definitely have a monopoly on search and it's what's essentially powering almost all of Google revenue right now.

Their revenue comes from ads, which happen to be on their search, which is used because it is the best, not because people are forced to use it.

Ad revenue is powered by the content that draws eyeballs to the ads.

Ads are worthless on their own.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#610

Post by elamje »

giarc wrote: post #513
elamje wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t brick and mortar stores collect inventory and trend data too? Amazon isn’t the first one to do this, they just put the data closer to the center of their business so it’s more public that they collect data.

Until recently, brick and mortar really just knew what people tend to buy together. They can't tell, like Amazon, than a single customer buys XYZ over their lifetime. Brick and mortar now employee ways to aggregate using credit card numbers across stores.

Yes, and what is the problem with Amazon just employing better tools to do the same?
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