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Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

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Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#601

Post by aasasd »

landryraccoon wrote: post #582
aasasd wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gives it to everyone who asks Yeah nah, that's where the concept of agreements comes in. You walk up to Fes Boock and say: ― I want to have business with Fes Boock. ― Fes Boock will have business with you if you promise to not stab Fes Boock in the back. ― I give my word to not stab Fes Boock in the back. Turns out, this thing is so valuable, it's supported by law everywhere that I know of, in multiple forms, inclu…

To my knowledge making an HTTP GET request and then receiving a document does not involve agreeing to any TOS, implicitly or otherwise. If the server didn’t want to send the data over an authenticated channel, then why does it send the data?

I'm pretty sure that a server, being a stupid piece of inanimate junk, is unable to enter any agreements or disagreements. In contrast, people, being endowed with free will supported by the ability to reason, need to apply said will and reason when directing actions of pieces of junk, so as to follow the same procedures of inter-party conduct as in direct interaction.

Since a web server, by its primary mode of operation, does indeed more or less indiscriminately send replies to whomever makes a request, it follows that the duty of choice lies with the client. The person operating the client has to apply their reason and follow the inter-party conduct.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#602

Post by kngspook »

ajross wrote: post #418
simon_acca wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I signed no contract. True, but you entered in a contract with the app developer and they are bound by one with Apple. Apple’s right to act on iOS devices is in virtue of them being a service provider to google more than the company that sold you your phone

> you entered in a contract with the app developer ... wat? No, I didn't. It's easy to imagine I "must have", but in fact there's no signature, no negotiation nor in many cases any consideration. Ah, but you say: I must have signed a contract to use the app store that I downloaded the app from, and that must constrain me to honor the terms of the app that I downloaded, which is constrained by Apple's contract with th…

>Ah, but you say: I must have signed a contract to use the app store... Except, no, I didn't do that either.

Do you have an Apple ID? You need an Apple ID to download apps from the App Store, and when you create the Apple ID, you accept their ToS. So, yeah, I think you did.

Though that ToS has absolutely nothing to do with anything we're discussing -- the ToS that matters here is the one between Apple and Google/Facebook.

> ...and that must constrain me to honor the terms of the app that I downloaded...

I don't think Apple's ToS with you constrains you to honors the terms of the app you downloaded. That seems strangely indirect. I think the app may or may not have their own ToS that they make you agree to at some point before permitting you to use their services.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#603

Post by HillaryBriss »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #405
eanzenberg wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> In one sense, Apple already gives up a data feed by sending search queries to Google. Apple does this under protest. Their top search queries are served through siri lately, and the hope is siri will replace all search so they won't need to utilize google anymore.

Siri isn't a search engine, it is a front end to a search engine[1]. That used to be Bing but now it is Google (see: http://fortune.com/2017/09/25/google-bing-default-iphone/ ) There was a time when the Siri folks approached Blekko (which was an actual search engine with its own index, crawler, and ranking Etc. to discuss partnering with Apple (personally I think they should have bought us :-)) But, according to peop…

Here's what I wanna know: to what extent does Google actually "have a phone"?

I mean, when I think about Apple, I think of a company that designs the look, the internals, the case, the glass, the board layout, and even some of the chips. (Sure, they contract the manufacture out, but Apple is deeply involved with designing components on a low level -- not merely farming it all out to some device maker in Taiwan or China.)

But for Nexus/Pixel: how much is Google and how much is LG or Samsung or HTC (yes, I know they bought HTC). I mean, how deep do Google personnel in Mountain View really go? How much do they just hand off to outsiders? Is it comparable to what Apple does? Maybe so. I just can't quite see into it.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#604

Post by [deleted] »

threeseed wrote: post #299
mjw1007 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the story, Apple have stopped Google employees running Google's "Gbus app for transportation". So yes, it's about what Apple allows people to run on their own devices.

Google can make that app public. Or stop abusing the terms of the enterprise certificates.

[deleted]

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#605

Post by twtw »

saagarjha wrote: post #597
twtw wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do it on iOS 8. Can't recall the Xcode version.

You sure about that? IIRC this came as part of the combined developer program in 2015.

Yup. I side loaded an app yesterday onto my phone running iOS 8.4.1.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#607

Post by kngspook »

curt15 wrote: post #278
mjw1007 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the story, Apple have stopped Google employees running Google's "Gbus app for transportation". So yes, it's about what Apple allows people to run on their own devices.

Since Gbus is presumably developed internally, what prevents the employees from installing the program via Xcode?

From what I understand, it actually is a public app:

https://www.tripshot.com/

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tripshot/id1007192056?mt=8

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#608

Post by kngspook »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #552
curt15 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Gbus is presumably developed internally, what prevents the employees from installing the program via Xcode?

The employees would each have to spend $100 on a developer membership (sharing them is a good way to get more revokes).

No, that's not necessarily for loading an app on to your device. It's only necessary for broader distribution.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#609

Post by kngspook »

manigandham wrote: post #396
askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

It’s more about a single massive company having such in-depth control over billions of personal mobile devices. That’s a worrisome situation.

Sure, and Facebook solely controls the messaging ability and photo storage for a significant percentage of their 2B+ users.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#610

Post by kngspook »

threeseed wrote: post #289
pier25 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked on enterprise iOS apps that were also shared to some of our customers. I've always felt super paranoid about it and thought Apple would shut us down... Seeing what's going on with Facebook and Google I guess Apple didn't pay much attention to this.

Apple can't pay attention to it though. The whole point of enterprise certificates was to allow creation of internal apps that even Apple shouldn't know about.

> The whole point of enterprise certificates was to allow creation of internal apps that even Apple shouldn't know about.

I think most/all of the companies in the program would say it's about controlling the distribution of their apps, since putting them on the App Store would expose them to the public, and less about hiding from Apple...

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