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EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

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Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet is supposed to be THE free platform a mom and pop internet news site can prosper. You are, at this very moment, here in HN, in a mom and pop internet news site.

Are you joking? HN is owned by YCombinator, one of the most powerful companies in the Valley. If it's Mom and Pop, than so is Mitt Romney's hedgefund.

It's not about who the mom is, or whether she is a billionaire. HN is read mostly by tech workers, which is probably not more than 5% of US population and probably less than 1% of internet users. These numbers are out of my ass, but is there any indication that HN is mainstream media? HN is a niche media like my sister's blog.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#602

So bad is this legislation that it's almost enough to make me change my views on Brexit. It's ludicrous to me that the same body that approved something so user-centric as GDPR could come up with legislation so incredibly hostile to small players as to effectively abolish the open internet by financial attrition. Once this comes in, we'll collectively need to finally start work on that peer-to-peer, onion-layered, en…

I believe the EU would be the lesser of two evils here. If we leave it up to the UK Government and Mrs May we will have it far worse. She has tried several times to ban WhatsApp and encryption in general. I wouldn't put anything like this past her.

I don't know the EU/EuroParl equivalents, but the UK still has a robust Judicial Review system.

I would strongly argue that the UK has a longer history of independent judiciary, both capable of standing up to misguided legislation, as well as willing and enabled to do so, with the sense of purpose, clarity and finality, which [at least apparently, or perceptively] absent features are longstanding argument behind EU cecessionism.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optimize for the little guy so there can be growth. "Better for everyone" is stasis because "everyone" includes all the people that already have disproportional slices of pie.

To be fair, google and the like have been living off scraping third-party content and making it available in a way that only the scrapers see any traffic from that content, thus earn anything that is there to be earned. In this scenario, I'm not sure if society should encourage little mom and pop scrapers to spawn while leaving the people who actually created the content with any way to protect their work.

The problem is that people don't want what (most of) the newspaper publishers are offering, they want smaller, broader, differently curated summaries of that.

"Publishers" (newspapers) are 99% simply reprinting news they get from "the wire" (Reuters for example, or Bloomberg, or ...), or a few wire services. One way to look at Facebook and Google News is that they are better versions of these wires, available for end users of the content instead of just paying subscribers (Reuters' wire is a subscription service)

The way it works is this: let's say I feel the need to put out a press release. I have an employee write the news (heavily favoring me) and "put out the press release", meaning I submit the article to a news agency [1], including image and text online, paying 35$ for the privilege of having it appear on the feeds newspapers use to put out news. This is why even the BBC is full of "researchers working for IBM have saved the world again".

There are a number of issues. Of course 99% of the news is not exactly neutral or even a little bit researched, because it's just press releases. 1% is, but is produced by reporters working for the news agencies (only huge places like BBC still have their own reporters). And Google is a lot better than even the BBC (which is very high quality) at finding and presenting press releases to the public. Hell, it's actually better at deciding the trustworthiness of them than news desks (mostly because they, for profit reasons, refuse to give humans even half an hour to check things). Furthermore, those algorithms run so cheaply that they actually provide a personalized version of the news of the day based on both your interests and the news. I assume Jeff Bezos has the same service by a newspapers, but I imagine few others do.

So the underlying issue newspapers are having is "Google automated and Facebook crowdsources what we do, and their automated algorithms are much more successful than our humans, please outlaw them".

> To be fair, google and the like have been living off scraping third-party content and making it available in a way that only the scrapers see any traffic from that content, thus earn anything that is there to be earned.

Yeah there is no value at all in having a searchable index, content summaries, and it's unfair that people get paid for that. Furthermore newspapers just use humans to do what Google news does with algorithms. Never mind that that's what people want.

And as pointed out, people see more value in the aggregated, summarized and algorithmically curated versions of the same data.

Did you ever use the phonebook ? Did it have ads or not ? Should we outlaw the phonebook too ? Did you ever use an encyclopedia or a dictionary ? Did you pay for it ?

I feel like your argument has some shortcomings.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_agency

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that communists are historically against private property and their usage as a means of production, eventhough the statement is very loaded and inflamatory it still is somewhat appropriate when addressing critics who are against the use of intellectual (private) property as a mean of production.

> Considering that communists are historically against private property and their usage as a means of production No, Communist are against “private property” where “private property” is specifically defined as exclusionary ownership of the means of production. If it isn't specifically in the means of production, “private property” in sense the term is used in the modern capitalist world is not “private property” as o…

> No, Communist are against “private property” where “private property” is specifically defined as exclusionary ownership of the means of production.

...and in this case it's the intellectual property of content providers who use it to run their business.

>And it's not clear to me that intellectual property (or other intangible personal property not representing control of tangible goods), strictly speaking, can be a “means of production” in the sense Communists are concerned about.

Even if we ignore how this law was created to help private media companies that are vilified for controlling the press, I'm sure that we can agree that media companies do depend on the existence of strong intellectual properly rights to run their business. That's pretty much thr central argument: if they can't enforce their rights over their private property them it ceases to serve its purpose as a means of production.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#606

So bad is this legislation that it's almost enough to make me change my views on Brexit. It's ludicrous to me that the same body that approved something so user-centric as GDPR could come up with legislation so incredibly hostile to small players as to effectively abolish the open internet by financial attrition. Once this comes in, we'll collectively need to finally start work on that peer-to-peer, onion-layered, en…

I don't know the EU/EuroParl equivalents, but the UK still has a robust Judicial Review system.

I would strongly argue that the UK has a longer history of independent judiciary, both capable of standing up to misguided legislation, as well as willing and enabled to do so, with the sense of purpose, clarity and finality, which [at least apparently, or perceptively] absent features are longstanding argument behind EU cecessionism.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in complete agreement, but I don't think the desire to leave is particularly contentious if it's backed by reasonable arguments (and Farage was always very keen on talking about why he didn't like the EU). The real problem comes in when we get to the point of "OK, we want to leave the EU" but immediately trigger the process without planning a strategy first. Especially with reluctant and un-aligned (May was a rem…

[flagged]

>He seemed to represent hatred of immigrants... that's a lie in one way or another?

Oh its a lie alright, and it belongs to you.

Only in the leftist bizzaro world does love of country = hatred of immigrants. It's pathetic that this is what we are dealing with these days.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And what are we doing about it? Make our own content and host it ourselves? This type of law is only effective due to centralisation of Internet services. If everyone self-hosted and was accountable for their own content there would be no scope for such legislation. All HN would hold would be linked-lists of URLs, no actual comment content. Imagine a decentralised, federated HN where each comment originated from it…

>This type of law is only effective due to centralisation of Internet services. This type of law encourages that very centralization. Look at the provisions of GDPR, for example. Do you think a two-person startup is going to have the resources to deal with all of its provisions? Or in this case: do you think that a new video-sharing startup is going to have the resources to deal with the more stringent copyright enfo…

> Look at the provisions of GDPR, for example. Do you think a two-person startup is going to have the resources to deal with all of its provisions?

GDPR is a bad example, because yes, that's definitely possible. And it should be, if that startup handles personal data.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#609

So bad is this legislation that it's almost enough to make me change my views on Brexit. It's ludicrous to me that the same body that approved something so user-centric as GDPR could come up with legislation so incredibly hostile to small players as to effectively abolish the open internet by financial attrition. Once this comes in, we'll collectively need to finally start work on that peer-to-peer, onion-layered, en…

I believe the EU would be the lesser of two evils here. If we leave it up to the UK Government and Mrs May we will have it far worse. She has tried several times to ban WhatsApp and encryption in general. I wouldn't put anything like this past her.

You have the ability to vote Teresa May out of office and change UK laws through your member of parliament. The European Commission, the European Council, and the Council of the European Union are entirely undemocratic, and the European Parliament is democratic only in name. There's no serious argument that the EU is in any way responsive to voters.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly and tbh Google could just buy a newspaper and not give a shit about it. Many newspapers are rubbish and publish rubbish content anyway so that's the problem, not the copyright.

On the other hand, newspapers were a lot less rubbish two decades ago when they could still afford to employ many journalists. That is what they're trying to get back to with legislation like this.

I think they went rubbish before the internet in search of profits. Remember the old meme about whenever the news covers something you know well it is bullshit but you trust it in areas you don't know about? I recall it being obviously worse in the early established days of the internet where there was enough to fact check but not mainstream enough that journalists knew about it to make their jobs easier.

Admittedly I bear a hard grudge against them from my youth and how they would scapegoat and stir up moral panics about the youth and their media. Rainbow parties, bullshit claims about video games and anime, etc. They still love to use Millennials as a slur.

I personally suspect that demographic warfare came back to bite them hard as they grow up and don't trust the ones constantly talking shit about them on garbage grounds.

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