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How America lost its love for the stick shift

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Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#601

Post by ForHackernews »

icantdrive55 wrote: post #599
hocuspocus wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the main issue in Europe was due to torque converters being inefficient. With expensive gas and small engines, the performance hit is non-negligible. Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price. And given that most people drive manuals in an idiotic way, they can easily be more fuel efficient.

"Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price." 1. These automatic transmissions are still the weak spot on most vechicles. 2. They still use clutch bands that wear. The trannies are anything but simple. Most mechanics farm out rebuilding a tranny. I would recon that a malfunctioning automatic transmission us the number one cause of junke…

I think you might be getting downvoted for using an abbreviation for 'transmission' that also happens to be a homonym for a slur against transgender people. You've written a good, informative comment drawing on your specialist expertise, so it seems a shame to have it lose visibility. You might consider editing to change the word that could be upsetting some people.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#602

Post by Agentlien »

J-dawg wrote: post #574
LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

In the UK you don't need a medical reason, you can simply choose to take an automatic test. But then of course you can only drive automatic cars, just like in the Netherlands. Ironically I believe an American who has never driven a manual would be able to come here and rent one, because (please correct me if I'm wrong) their licences don't distinguish between the two. I think manuals are slowly on the way out here as…

It's the same in Sweden as well. You can simply choose to do your driving exam with an automatic, but then you are not allowed to drive with a manual transmission.

Also, a year or two ago was the first year where half the new cars sold were automatic. The first time I ever tried driving an automatic was actually when first driving my own car; we bought our car just before I got my license, so I couldn't test drive it then but I could drive it home when it was delivered. I quickly decided that I would not ever be getting a car with manual transmission.

This is especially funny to me since I'm working on Need for Speed which is all about car culture, where people have a lot of passion for driving stick.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#603

Post by yhoneycomb »

ForHackernews wrote: post #601
icantdrive55 wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price." 1. These automatic transmissions are still the weak spot on most vechicles. 2. They still use clutch bands that wear. The trannies are anything but simple. Most mechanics farm out rebuilding a tranny. I would recon that a malfunctioning automatic transmission us the number one cause of junke…

I think you might be getting downvoted for using an abbreviation for 'transmission' that also happens to be a homonym for a slur against transgender people. You've written a good, informative comment drawing on your specialist expertise, so it seems a shame to have it lose visibility. You might consider editing to change the word that could be upsetting some people.

>You might consider editing to change the word that could be upsetting some people.

Are you serious right now?

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#604

Post by joeblau »

mirimir wrote: post #395
joeblau wrote: post #59

My brother has an R8, Viper, and Vantage (All Manual) and I would rather drive a Tesla over all 3 of them. Manual is fun and you get the feeling of control and I love driving them, but in reality, there is a reason they are on their way out. The main problem is that the replacement, automatic, make driving feel worse. The computers that manage automatic transmissions are so bad that they make automatics feel terrible…

OK, I've never driven an EV. Although I've mellowed a lot, what I love about manual transmissions is the ability to instantly ramp torque. It's especially useful for extreme turns. Do EVs have so much torque that it's not necessary?

EV's torque curve is different than a manual. Torque on an EV is instant so it available faster than a manual, but then tapers down (Because the cars are programmed that way). If you had performance manual transmission car, the torque curve keeps going up.

That's what when people drag race a Tesla, the Tesla wins in a quarter mile, but then all of these other high speed automobiles end up catching and passing the Tesla a few seconds afterwards. This video explains it[1].

[1] - https://youtu.be/KFol2ZQnASI?t=389

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#605

Post by Agentlien »

tomohawk wrote: post #578
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it hasn't been proven that this happens more with automatic transmissions.

But it is pretty obvious. In an automatic, you pretty much have to touch the brakes to slow down. In a manual, you have other options. Taking your foot off the gas in a manual tends to slow the car quite a bit more than in an automatic, for example.

I've driven quite a bit with both manual and automatic and, while there is definitely a difference, I've found that moving my foot from the gas works quite well in both.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#606

Post by argonaut »

kaitai wrote: post #566
inferiorhuman wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It was about efficiency and cost for ages though. That's why manuals were popular and why they aren't popular in the US anymore. Modern automatics (dual clutch, CVTs, even computer controlled single clutch and plain old torque converter slushboxes) are so much more efficient now that manuals don't make as much sense as they used to.

Agree, simply in that by changing my driving style I could get 30+ miles per gallon of gas using a manual but not an automatic of the same type of car. It's interesting that people don't even know that anymore. Additionally, manual can be very useful in a snowy/icy climate -- starting into 2nd can get you going on a slippery road where some automatics will have trouble. Much more control of torque.

For new cars today, though, automatics are almost always more fuel efficient.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#607

Post by blattimwind »

petre wrote: post #555
another-cuppa wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second in a car is optimistic. I often have to put it in first and just let the engine tick over. Some people don't think their car can do this. I'm not sure if that's true or if they are just bad drivers, though. My car will happily roll in third if it's flat. I find I'm usually able to keep rolling in gear, which doesn't use any more fuel than just idling, and not apply the brakes in most "stop and go" traffic.

My car does it but it's a small diesel 4x4 with gearbox optimized for lower speeds. It happily rolls in the first on low slopes. I have yet to try this with a normal petrol engine car. I have to leave some free space in front of my car and sometimes aggresive drivers from neighbouring lanes will annoyingly slip into that space without signaling, causing a stop on my side.

Yeah, especially not-ancient-TDIs with low and high idle (~800 and ~1100 rpm, out of and in gear, respectively) put out a surprising amount of torque without hitting the gas.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#608

Post by t0mas88 »

LeonM wrote: post #568

In Europe, the manual/automatic situation is quite the opposite of that in the USA. Here all standard, cheap cars are manual, and only the expensive luxury cars have automatic transmissions. (At least in the Netherlands) driving lessons/tests must done in manual cars, unless you have some medical reason not to (then you'll also get a note on your license, prohibiting you from driving manual cars). Automatic transmiss…

I agree that all cheap cars in the Netherlands are manual. Especially the under 10.000 euro small kind of car like a Hyundai i10, small Kia or similar.

But over the last few years the automatic has increased dramatically in popularity with the more serious brands like BMW and Audi. Not just in their top models, BMW has been selling an 8 speed automatic as standard even on the 1-series.

A big part of that is because modern automatic gearboxes are not slow and boring anymore. The dual-clutch type really made sales increase. And so does the increase in hybrid and electric cars which are very popular due to tax reasons and all of them are automatic.

The driving test is a choice. You don't need a medical reason, you can choose to do the test in an automatic (or hybrid / electric) car if you want to. But almost nobody does that, because you are indeed not allowed to drive a manual car after doing the test in an automatic.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#609

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

ForHackernews wrote: post #601
icantdrive55 wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Nowadays you can get good robotized gearboxes that have almost none of the disadvantages, except for a slightly higher price." 1. These automatic transmissions are still the weak spot on most vechicles. 2. They still use clutch bands that wear. The trannies are anything but simple. Most mechanics farm out rebuilding a tranny. I would recon that a malfunctioning automatic transmission us the number one cause of junke…

I think you might be getting downvoted for using an abbreviation for 'transmission' that also happens to be a homonym for a slur against transgender people. You've written a good, informative comment drawing on your specialist expertise, so it seems a shame to have it lose visibility. You might consider editing to change the word that could be upsetting some people.

I imagine vividly you visiting places like diyAudio or electronicspoint forums with this suggestion. May be you should try it.

Re: How America lost its love for the stick shift

#610

Post by billpg »

My advice to British learner drivers - just take the test in an automatic car. Yes you won't be able to drive manual cars but who cares about that?

It's 2018 people! Leave obsolete technology behind. You want to learn how to drive a horse drawn cart too?

EDIT - This was meant as a reply to a related comment. Oops.

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