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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#601

Post by grzm »

sdegutis wrote: post #591
splawn wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the danger in encouraging people to treat each other with respect.

Encouraging is not the same as enforcing. People should have the freedom to say what they want. Just because someone cries and says "they hurt my feelings" doesn't mean we should put mandates and rules in place to stop it from happening again. It's a pretty slippery slope, and complete liars can take advantage of this to basically make new rules for everyone else, and we'll also end up with a fundamentally broken soc…

How do you feel about businesses choosing who they do business with? Which customers they will serve? What company culture they want to support? What health care options they'll offer their employees?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#602

Post by DanBC »

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

The common thing about your example is you. Maybe it's the way you're talking about these "contrarian" views that's the problem, and not other people.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#603

Post by renegadesensei »

mcphage wrote: post #434
renegadesensei wrote: post #415

This was a good read. I think we need more of this. More listening and less demonizing. I too was dismissive of Trump supporters throughout the election. Over the last several months I have started to better understand where they are coming from. Living in Japan has helped me understand why people worry about immigration and cultural preservation. I have conversed with a lot of 'alt-right' people lately too and tried…

> Over the last several months I have started to better understand where they are coming from. Do you feel that Trump supports have made an effort to understand you and where you're coming from? Or that they would have, had Clinton won the election?

I think what a lot of them would say is that because of how biased Hollywood / the media / schools / etc. are, they already are familiar with the liberal point of view. A lot of them I think expected Hillary to win and so were prepared to deal with being in opposition to the white house (as they already have been for 8 years). Certainly there are some on the right who are intolerant and dismissive, but in general my experience has been very good.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#604

Post by jelly »

drewrv wrote: post #504
camdenlock wrote: post #76

None of this is particularly surprising, but it is sobering to hear it from the horse's mouth. Insane racist sexists didn't win this election for Trump; dogma did. One can no longer openly discuss certain extremely important topics (is there something inherently wrong with Islam as a belief system? Is Black Lives Matter doing good or bad things? Are women really paid less than men for performing the same work?) witho…

> it's that very fatigue which seems to be one of the factors which drove people to vote for a truly awful leader. I don't understand this reasoning. Why would someone who hates being unfairly called a bigot go and vote for a bigot? If I hated it when people called me a socialist, I wouldn't vote for Bernie Sanders! What seems more likely is that bigotry is fairly common and a lot of people are bigoted in ways they d…

Voting is anonymous, so calling people names based off who they voted for isn't a viable strategy.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#605

Post by spaethnl »

mcphage wrote: post #411
camdenlock wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now the entire national government is run by people who have no trouble talking about these things, and much worse. You seem to be implying that such questions are inherently immoral, and that's exactly the kind of sentiment that I challenged in my original comment. You can't demonize people for wanting to ask legitimate questions and have legitimate discussions. There are difficult questions and there are ba…

> You can't demonize people for wanting to ask legitimate questions and have legitimate discussions. You also can't claim that merely asking those questions will lead to demonization or ostracism, since we recently freely elected a leader who asks such questions.

Electing Trump doesn't contradict OPs perception. Just because Trump won doesn't mean everyone is surrounded by Trump supporters.

In fact, I am pretty left-leaning, as are most of my friends, co-workers, social-circle, and neighborhood.. Trump is not popular in the context of my life.

However, I don't agree with all of the left dogma. While I can talk frankly about my criticisms of those topics with close friends, even polite and genuine questioning of some left-dogma has been met with immediate vitriol by otherwise friendly acquaintances, despite having not made any statement of judgement, and otherwise agreeing on most topics!

If you grovel down and frame your discussion as "I am dumb, educate me!" they are willing to have a happy discussion where they tell you their opinion.

On the other hand, if you are mildly informed and frame it as "I question a few things and want to discuss for introspection's sake", you are in for a dismissive discussion.

Scorning introspection is very unhealthy.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#606

Post by Gargoyle »

jimnotgym wrote: post #569
Joeri wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things aren't like that here in belgium, but one thing I've noticed about the left which seems to apply everywhere is that they are ideologically petrified. The real problems of the world require left-leaning policies, but the actual policies the left are peddling are dated, harmful and missing the point. I feel like all the left needs to do to make a huge leap forward is to take an axe to their existing book of poli…

I think you have hit the nail on the head, the old ideas of left and right are soon to be obsolete. This current Trump/Brexit world may be the last hurrah of the luddites. What will be the point in labour rules, when everything is delivered by robot? How will Thatcher/Reagan low corporate tax economies fare when there are no workers paying tax. I think it is time for a new politics that addresses globalisation, techn…

I suspect a lot of the Trump voters agree. The "bomb throwing" aspect is probably a lot bigger than it first appears. They don't really believe Trump is going to fix things, but they know for damn sure he's going to break a lot of things that aren't working.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#607

Post by rhapsodic »

I would like to see the political right in the US employ the same tactics against the left that the left has used against the right for about the last decade. To wit, they should employ any and all legal methods to inflict as much social and economic suffering on individuals, organizations and companies who insult them, denigrate them, and openly espouse political agendas they oppose.

Among the billionaire bully-boys in SV, Sam Altman seems like quite a rational and fair-minded individual. I suspect he realizes that if things continue as they are, the right will wake up to the fact that, like Dorothy with her ruby slippers, they've had the power all along to hit back, hard, against the people who are lashing out and throwing a massive tantrum because the election didn't turn out the way they wanted it. And all of these "disruptive" industries are ripe fodder for decimation through legislatively-enabled lawsuits and stifling regulations.

I can well imagine the drama of congressional hearings where, for days on end, one tearful individual after another testifies how their lives were turned upside down as a result of Airbnb's "disruption". And I suppose Sam can imagine it too.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#608

Post by admyral »

Bartweiss wrote: post #373
darkmouth wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a staunch liberal and I don't understand the hostility towards deportation of illegal immigrants either. Calling illegal immigrants undocumented immigrants doesn't make the illegal part go away.

The easiest answer I know is that it's a problem with selective (and unproductive) enforcement. Lots of people immigrate illegally, and many of them stay at length, work hard, and build lives. The government pretty explicitly turns a blind eye to their presence. Then we change leaders, and suddenly responsible residents of 30 years are kicked out to a country they haven't lived in since childhood. Meanwhile, a great…

It seems like America doesn't have an appetite for long term, sensible policies. We pass common sense legislation, fail to ever adjust them based on how they work in practice or when new information comes to light. Then as public outcry reaches its peak, a politician will come along to scrap the entire thing in favor of starting anew or propose some poorly conceived, overly broad solution to the problem.

America is great at throwing tons of cash, our vast technical and industrial infrastructure, or military might at the problem. Not so much at utilizing the scientific method to determine a sensible course of action as other nations do.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#609

Post by cr0sh »

Animats wrote: post #151

That's fascinating. What's striking is the absence of economic complaints. Much of the US, by area, is seeing jobs disappear and a gradually declining standard of living. Yet that's not what the Trump supporters Altman talked to are concerned about. There's not one mention of China. Loss of jobs due to foreign competition isn't mentioned. There's also not much mention of religion. "God", "Christian", and "religion" d…

> Stopping abortion and the protection of American culture seem to be the crucial items for Trump supporters.

Both (and "white privilege/culture") are arguably rooted in a particular religious expression, namely that of extremist evangelical Christianity, especially that of Dominionism and/or the Quiverfull movements. Also note the makeup of Trump's cabinet picks.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#610

Post by TheCoelacanth »

PKop wrote: post #389

As a Trump supporter many of the comments resonated. In regards to upholding and celebrating American culture I always have this thought: Why do silicon valley types promote the concept of a "company culture" and feel it's important enough to base hiring decisions on, while demeaning those that want to uphold and sustain their own country's culture in the same manner? You hear it time and time again when a CEO stress…

Where does this idea come from that Democrats want unrestricted immigration?

Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any other president ever and stopped awarding new visas from the same countries that Trump's executive order applied to. He just didn't do crazy/potentially illegal like Trump is doing or has suggested doing like indiscriminately turning away green card holders or using the National Guard to round-up millions of illegal immigrants.

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