Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#601

Post by goatlover » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:11 PM UTC

pstuart wrote: post #444

lintiness wrote: post #394

too bad he's a financial zero who can't do basic math.

Too bad you can't do basic math either. America has spent/committed trillions of dollars on two wars that it has lost . That money got us nothing but more terrorists to be afraid of. If that money was invested in a sound "socialist" manner we wouldn't have the level of despair that would incite millions of citizens to vote for a candidate who promised to "blow up the system". https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nati…

What do you mean by "lost"? You mean the nation building part? Because Afghanistan and Iraq didn't win those wars. The occupation and attempts at nation building are a different story.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#602

Post by mindfulgeek » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

micaksica wrote: post #186

moultano wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

This will not help. You are supposing that the people who feel disenfranchised in the Rust Belt want to move to NYC where they can get cheap housing and work in the city. They don't want the China model of having a Foxconn that hires rural workers to work in the big city. What these people want isn't fully rational; it's highly emotional. They want their 1950s-style old way of life back. They want their jobs in their…

The book Hillbilly Elegy is a great read to get a peak into this culture: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0166ISAS8/

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#603

Post by jjawssd » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

md_ wrote: post #131

scrollaway wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:) The internet has been such a nasty place today and, similarly to the day of the Paris attacks, it's been really nice to find reasonably moderate discourse on HN. As... curious as I personally find America's choices in presidency, I'm just as ashamed of some of my follower feeds on various social media. Seriously guys, don't demonize people, especially by association. Refusing to hear your political opponents out i…

It's tough. I've been trying to find a pen pal who can give me some reasonable arguments for Donald Trump for the last few weeks, to no avail. Not living in the US, I don't really meet people who support Donald Trump. I'm probably living in a bubble, which isn't a great feeling--but at the same time, it's hard to credit the democratic process when you can't understand the alternative view. No doubt this is a symptom…

Maybe this can help you find a pen pal https://worldwide.vote/hillary-vs-trump/#/results/total

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#604

Post by acbabis » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

fivedogit wrote: post #548

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #221

My takeaway from this is that our strategy of "shaming" people into voting a certain way doesn't work. Exit polls seem to suggest that plenty of people understated their support for Trump because they were embarrassed to admit they voted for him. But they still did. In effect, you don't stop people from supporting racism, homophobia, or misogyny by calling attention to it. That only makes them support it quietly. You…

>Exit polls seem to suggest that plenty of people understated their support for Trump This is incorrect. People stated their support. Poll models just underestimated how many of them would vote.

But I thought Hillary was leading in polls. Also, how would you know how many people lied in the polls?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#605

Post by knz » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #460

jbkrule wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with you entirely on your first point. Trump's entire campaign was based on hate and that's why he won. It was all about building the base of people who hate the other side more.

The next four years is going to be very confusing for you if you can't ask yourself objective questions about your opposition and resist the reflex to paint them as a cartoon villain.

Trump condoned crowds chanting "Hang that bitch" at his rallies. Regardless of how you feel about the usual left vs right arguments - tapping into anger in this fashion is playing with fire.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#606

Post by mjevans » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

IMTDb wrote: post #368

jernfrost wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

USA does not have an oil fund that amounts do $150k per capita to pay for "free everything" (university education, universal health care, childcare) and good pensions for everybody. Norway generates more revenue with oil than the entires US of A, for 5 million people, and is third worldwide exporter for Natural Gas just behind Qatar and Russia, again with only 5 million people to serve (less than the population of Ne…

I seriously doubt that /everyone/ would be on the 'free everything' plans. Just like right now not /everyone/ is in jail (but those that are still cost us QUITE a bit both in jail fees and in public court fees of various kinds).

Wouldn't a social safety net to prevent destroyed families, to prevent crimes driven by desperation and/or drug abuse, and to fund the enrichment of workers in to higher skill cogs in the machine that is society be a wiser investment than in more police, prosecutors and jails?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#607

Post by ohsonice » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

fivedogit wrote: post #548

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #221

My takeaway from this is that our strategy of "shaming" people into voting a certain way doesn't work. Exit polls seem to suggest that plenty of people understated their support for Trump because they were embarrassed to admit they voted for him. But they still did. In effect, you don't stop people from supporting racism, homophobia, or misogyny by calling attention to it. That only makes them support it quietly. You…

>Exit polls seem to suggest that plenty of people understated their support for Trump This is incorrect. People stated their support. Poll models just underestimated how many of them would vote.

Yeah from what I've seen, Trump supporters are NOT embarrassed to be Trump supporters. Media and liberals are embarrassed for the Trump supporters but the actual supporters are proud and see the media as condescending

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#608

Post by notacoward » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump

I don't believe that. It might be what you saw but that's because the media wouldn't cover anything substantive. She tried; it just got drowned out by all the smears (including those against Trump) and horse-race coverage.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#609

Post by eru » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #90

moultano wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

That is only going to help more wealthy people move to the cities and take more housing on their own firstly, especially because they will be advertising "new" apartments and thus ask for higher price points. There isn't a very large city without some kind of housing shortage right now. Hacker news seems predominantly upper-class but many articles complain about housing in SF/SV. It seems to me that if housing was re…

Land Value Tax is the answer. Incidentally, it's biggest proponent, Henry George, who kicked of the late 19th century wave of Progressives hailed from SF.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#610

Post by davidf18 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #221

My takeaway from this is that our strategy of "shaming" people into voting a certain way doesn't work. Exit polls seem to suggest that plenty of people understated their support for Trump because they were embarrassed to admit they voted for him. But they still did. In effect, you don't stop people from supporting racism, homophobia, or misogyny by calling attention to it. That only makes them support it quietly. You…

The issues were not racism -- Trump was against illegal immigrants. Rather the issue was economic uneducated immigrants were displacing Americans working class from their jobs as well depressing wage growth. The same was true of Britain and BrExit.